My Red Lines

[eurosceptic]

I was at a european debate in UCD this week and a speaker bemoaned the no side for not saying what they want. So this is what i want.
1) Opt-out from TCOFR.
2) Opt-out from solidarity & mutual assistance.
3) Derogation from EDA.
4) Voluntary EU citizenship.
5) Derogation from legal personality of EU.
6) Derogation from self amending mechanism.
7) No EU symbols.
8) Derogation from suspension of voting rights mechanism.
9) Right of withdrawal by vienna convention.
10) Opt-out from the Euro.
11) Withdrawal from battlegroups.
12) Withdrawal of declaration 56 re Justice and Home affairs.
13) Keep our vetos.
14) No weighted votes at EU council.
15) Permanent commission seat.
I would have other issues but these are core issues for me.

[seabhcan]

And what will you do when the other 26 members say f-off to your red lines?

[FutureTaoiseach]

And what will you do when the other 26 members say f-off to your red lines?

Say f-off to them.

[ibis]

Say f-off to them.

Zing! That's going to hurt.

[seabhcan]

What would "Voluntary EU citizenship" involve? Individuals renouncing the right to travel or to employment rights? I can't see that being hugely popular.

Here you go, euro, start the ball rolling. Renounce your right to safe working conditions, healthy food, and 4 weeks holidays a year. Apply for a visa next time you travel to the mainland. Voluntarily pay import duty on your British newspapers.

[eurosceptic]

Seabhcan once again you forget that the "four freedoms" exist independently of the EU. We would have them as signatories to the EEA agreement. So carrying a proper irish passport wont mean getting visa's/work permits or losing any benefits of europe.

As for the other 26 telling me where to go, only red lines 14 & 15 would impact on them. The idea of keeping permanent commissioners is already on the table. The larger countries might not be keen to agree to unweighted voting but EP seats could be allocated on population instead as a compromise (so what if we have 6 or 12 MEP's wont change much).

[seabhcan]

2, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13 would effect other countries.

4 and 7 are silly and pointless

10 would bankrupt the country

And 1 would loose far more votes in a Lisbon II than it would gain.

I wish you the best of luck presenting this list to the Irish people. It will give the Yes side a boost and a good laugh.

[jfk2008]

And these red lines are common to all 'No' voters?

Or will other 'No' voters demand extra, perhaps incompatible, opt-outs?

[eurosceptic]

2 just means the other 26 will have to do without the irish army, which isnt much of a loss.
5 and 6 are opt-outs, the other 26 can still operate them without us.
8 can operate on a reciprocal basis, that is we cannot vote to suspend another countries voting rights.
9 The other 26 can limit their withdrawal rights if they wish. Keeping ours doesnt hurt them.
11 see 2.
12 doesnt affect them as they have granted us this opt-out, it is the stated intention of giving it up in 3 years must be withdrawn.
13 I concede this one to you. This would affect the others.
4 and 7 You obviously dont feel this way but there are many of us who are offended by the EU symbols and feel our irishness is being diluted.
10 means we should keep the option open to reinstate the punt. I have stated many times that there are advantages to the euro and we should keep it if its the best option. Its scaremongering to say the country would be bankrupted.
1 I have this to thank for the no vote.

[hiding behind a poster]

I was at a european debate in UCD this week and a speaker bemoaned the no side for not saying what they want. So this is what i want.
1) Opt-out from TCOFR.
2) Opt-out from solidarity & mutual assistance.
3) Derogation from EDA.
4) Voluntary EU citizenship.
5) Derogation from legal personality of EU.
6) Derogation from self amending mechanism.
7) No EU symbols.
8) Derogation from suspension of voting rights mechanism.
9) Right of withdrawal by vienna convention.
10) Opt-out from the Euro.
11) Withdrawal from battlegroups.
12) Withdrawal of declaration 56 re Justice and Home affairs.
13) Keep our vetos.
14) No weighted votes at EU council.
15) Permanent commission seat.
I would have other issues but these are core issues for me.

Well then prepare yourself for a long and fruitless wait beside your phone. Because the government doesn't need you to change your vote. It needs some of the people who were worried about abortion, or conscription (also known as "idiots"), or who think having a commissioner is important. That'd be enough to turn No into Yes. They're not gonna bother seeking to indulge the fantasies of a minority who basically want the Treaty torn up.