Upcoming Elections in Europe and possible impact on Lisbon

[The Collective.]

I see Libertas are planning to run on a Europe-wide basis. It is not quite clear how Declan Ganley is going to reconcile his hyper-federalism with the eurosceptic tinge of his contacts in other Member States.

The strategy appears to be to keep people guessing while riding the whole no-to-Lisbon-man-of-the-hour thing. Once elected, they're in for five years. It works because the eurosceptics claim to be in favour of greater democracy, accountability, and flexibility in Europe - they're not, really, they just see it as a convenient stick - but Ganley is actually in favour of those things (in a rather demagogic way), so they can't really object to him...if I'm right, and it works, Libertas may succeed in replacing some tranches of nationalist euroscepticism with eurocritical federalism - and more power to his elbow if so.

I could of course be over-interpreting, but I don't think there's any doubt that real eurosceptics simply want the EU to go away, even if they have no idea what they'd do without it. Mr Ganley, on the other hand, seems to be a genuine eurocritic - he doesn't want it to go away, he just wants it to work differently. Instead of setting up yet another national organisation, he's taken the bold yet obvious step of forming a genuinely European movement - at a time when even our own pro-European movements are parochially Irish in character - an unusual step which to some extent explains the unusual interest in him and his organisation. Such people are enormously valuable to any body politic, whether one agrees with them or not.

Ganely lied to the nation. He is a traitor.

[ibis]

I see Libertas are planning to run on a Europe-wide basis. It is not quite clear how Declan Ganley is going to reconcile his hyper-federalism with the eurosceptic tinge of his contacts in other Member States.

The strategy appears to be to keep people guessing while riding the whole no-to-Lisbon-man-of-the-hour thing. Once elected, they're in for five years. It works because the eurosceptics claim to be in favour of greater democracy, accountability, and flexibility in Europe - they're not, really, they just see it as a convenient stick - but Ganley is actually in favour of those things (in a rather demagogic way), so they can't really object to him...if I'm right, and it works, Libertas may succeed in replacing some tranches of nationalist euroscepticism with eurocritical federalism - and more power to his elbow if so.

I could of course be over-interpreting, but I don't think there's any doubt that real eurosceptics simply want the EU to go away, even if they have no idea what they'd do without it. Mr Ganley, on the other hand, seems to be a genuine eurocritic - he doesn't want it to go away, he just wants it to work differently. Instead of setting up yet another national organisation, he's taken the bold yet obvious step of forming a genuinely European movement - at a time when even our own pro-European movements are parochially Irish in character - an unusual step which to some extent explains the unusual interest in him and his organisation. Such people are enormously valuable to any body politic, whether one agrees with them or not.

Ganely lied to the nation. He is a traitor.

Hmm. On that basis, though, isn't rather a lot of our political establishment?

[The Collective.]

I see Libertas are planning to run on a Europe-wide basis. It is not quite clear how Declan Ganley is going to reconcile his hyper-federalism with the eurosceptic tinge of his contacts in other Member States.

The strategy appears to be to keep people guessing while riding the whole no-to-Lisbon-man-of-the-hour thing. Once elected, they're in for five years. It works because the eurosceptics claim to be in favour of greater democracy, accountability, and flexibility in Europe - they're not, really, they just see it as a convenient stick - but Ganley is actually in favour of those things (in a rather demagogic way), so they can't really object to him...if I'm right, and it works, Libertas may succeed in replacing some tranches of nationalist euroscepticism with eurocritical federalism - and more power to his elbow if so.

I could of course be over-interpreting, but I don't think there's any doubt that real eurosceptics simply want the EU to go away, even if they have no idea what they'd do without it. Mr Ganley, on the other hand, seems to be a genuine eurocritic - he doesn't want it to go away, he just wants it to work differently. Instead of setting up yet another national organisation, he's taken the bold yet obvious step of forming a genuinely European movement - at a time when even our own pro-European movements are parochially Irish in character - an unusual step which to some extent explains the unusual interest in him and his organisation. Such people are enormously valuable to any body politic, whether one agrees with them or not.

Ganely lied to the nation. He is a traitor.

Probably.

Hmm. On that basis, though, isn't rather a lot of our political establishment?

[eurosceptic]

If the british ambassador to italy demands the british copy back then what can be done about it. Will the italian dept of foreign affairs refuse to give it back? The hard copy is on special chlorine free paper so it lasts a very very long time. My understanding is that these signed copies have to be availible to prove ratification took place, just like any contract.

[Magror14]

I see Libertas are planning to run on a Europe-wide basis. It is not quite clear how Declan Ganley is going to reconcile his hyper-federalism with the eurosceptic tinge of his contacts in other Member States.

The strategy appears to be to keep people guessing while riding the whole no-to-Lisbon-man-of-the-hour thing. Once elected, they're in for five years. It works because the eurosceptics claim to be in favour of greater democracy, accountability, and flexibility in Europe - they're not, really, they just see it as a convenient stick - but Ganley is actually in favour of those things (in a rather demagogic way), so they can't really object to him...if I'm right, and it works, Libertas may succeed in replacing some tranches of nationalist euroscepticism with eurocritical federalism - and more power to his elbow if so.

I could of course be over-interpreting, but I don't think there's any doubt that real eurosceptics simply want the EU to go away, even if they have no idea what they'd do without it. Mr Ganley, on the other hand, seems to be a genuine eurocritic - he doesn't want it to go away, he just wants it to work differently. Instead of setting up yet another national organisation, he's taken the bold yet obvious step of forming a genuinely European movement - at a time when even our own pro-European movements are parochially Irish in character - an unusual step which to some extent explains the unusual interest in him and his organisation. Such people are enormously valuable to any body politic, whether one agrees with them or not.

Are you serious?

I am - although of course I may also be wrong. I'm basing my interpretation on Ganley's many articles and speeches outside the campaign, right back to the first introduction of the Libertas concept. I think a lot of what he wants is either unrealistic or potentially dangerous, but I am, rightly or wrongly, under the impression that he genuinely wants it - it's not a cover for euroscepticism (in the knee jerk "oog, EU bad!" sense of our resident eurotrolls).

Well, this is great news! You at least seem to know what he proposes for Europe. Can you tell us or refer us to the sources.

[CookieMonster]

I see Libertas are planning to run on a Europe-wide basis. It is not quite clear how Declan Ganley is going to reconcile his hyper-federalism with the eurosceptic tinge of his contacts in other Member States.

The strategy appears to be to keep people guessing while riding the whole no-to-Lisbon-man-of-the-hour thing. Once elected, they're in for five years. It works because the eurosceptics claim to be in favour of greater democracy, accountability, and flexibility in Europe - they're not, really, they just see it as a convenient stick - but Ganley is actually in favour of those things (in a rather demagogic way), so they can't really object to him...if I'm right, and it works, Libertas may succeed in replacing some tranches of nationalist euroscepticism with eurocritical federalism - and more power to his elbow if so.

I could of course be over-interpreting, but I don't think there's any doubt that real eurosceptics simply want the EU to go away, even if they have no idea what they'd do without it. Mr Ganley, on the other hand, seems to be a genuine eurocritic - he doesn't want it to go away, he just wants it to work differently. Instead of setting up yet another national organisation, he's taken the bold yet obvious step of forming a genuinely European movement - at a time when even our own pro-European movements are parochially Irish in character - an unusual step which to some extent explains the unusual interest in him and his organisation. Such people are enormously valuable to any body politic, whether one agrees with them or not.

Are you serious?

I am - although of course I may also be wrong. I'm basing my interpretation on Ganley's many articles and speeches outside the campaign, right back to the first introduction of the Libertas concept. I think a lot of what he wants is either unrealistic or potentially dangerous, but I am, rightly or wrongly, under the impression that he genuinely wants it - it's not a cover for euroscepticism (in the knee jerk "oog, EU bad!" sense of our resident eurotrolls).

Well, this is great news! You at least seem to know what he proposes for Europe. Can you tell us or refer us to the sources.

Perhaps you could try doing what Ibis does, you know reading and listening, which might give you some basis to your usually tenuous assumptions.