A solution to the Lisbon problem

[DeGaulle]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

[Ramon21]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

I agree to this like I said before this is the right way to take.
This way there is nothing to complain really, but will it happen probably not

[Bobert]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

No deal!I don't want to leave. I want a better, stronger, faster shinier EU. Not to be a side cab.

Also, no second referendum, we said no. Listen to it.

[Ramon21]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

No deal!I don't want to leave. I want a better, stronger, faster shinier EU. Not to be a side cab.

Also, no second referendum, we said no. Listen to it.

You don't want to leave but you don't want to go with it either.
it's like you only want the good parts but don't want to compromise for it.
I don't like that.

[Bobert]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

No deal!I don't want to leave. I want a better, stronger, faster shinier EU. Not to be a side cab.

Also, no second referendum, we said no. Listen to it.

You don't want to leave but you don't want to go with it either.
it's like you only want the good parts but don't want to compromise for it.
I don't like that.

What do you want me to compromise on?

Also, did you campaign on the side of the YPD's?

[FutureTaoiseach]

If the EU is a democratic organisation then it must be prepared to accept dissent among its members. I say we continue rejecting this Treaty unless and until it is sufficiently changed (as least in how it affects Ireland). I make no apology for this position. The GAA don't expel counties because their delegates at its Congress vote against a rule-change like Rule 21. Dissent is good for democracy and ultimately the no vote will be good for the EU. Personally I want things to largely remain as they are now in terms of the division of competences between member states and the EU. I don't want to be outside the EU because that would mean rules affecting what we can export to it would be made without us having a say, but neither do I want to ratify Lisbon because it would strip away all of our remaining independence and make 1916 pointless.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Double post.

[DeGaulle]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

No deal!I don't want to leave. I want a better, stronger, faster shinier EU. Not to be a side cab.

That's what you voted for

Also, no second referendum, we said no. Listen to it.

Libertas wanted a better deal - this is a possible way we can renegotiate our terms of membership, without affecting the other countries. Or was Libertas really about delaying Lisbon until the British Conservatives came to power?

[Bobert]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

No deal!I don't want to leave. I want a better, stronger, faster shinier EU. Not to be a side cab.

That's what you voted for

Also, no second referendum, we said no. Listen to it.

Libertas wanted a better deal - this is a possible way we can renegotiate our terms of membership, without affecting the other countries. Or was Libertas really about delaying Lisbon until the British Conservatives came to power?

When did I vote to be a side cab?

[DeGaulle]

I would like to propose the following solution to the Lisbon problem:-

- the government holds another referendum on ratifying Lisbon next year but commits itself (via a constitutional amendment if necessary) to immediately invoking the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for a country to leave the EU.

The advantages of this are:-
- we would maintain good relations with the other EU governments, who could proceed with Lisbon
- we would defeat the British eurosceptics who are attempting to use Ireland to attack the EU
- we could make arrangements to remain within the Eurozone
- we could negotiate an agreement that we could rejoin at some point at the future if we wished. Possibly, we could even rejoin with Croatia - but we could have a new membership agreement (and referendum) which would effectively enable us to renegotiate our membership conditions, if that was required.

Disadvantages:-
- a UK Conservative government might vero us rejoining
- it would mean 2 more referendums - on for Lisbon+leaving and one for rejoining

It may be somewhat legalistic to leave the EU and immediately rejoin it but maybe it is in the best interests of Ireland and Europe.

No deal!I don't want to leave. I want a better, stronger, faster shinier EU. Not to be a side cab.

That's what you voted for

Also, no second referendum, we said no. Listen to it.

Libertas wanted a better deal - this is a possible way we can renegotiate our terms of membership, without affecting the other countries. Or was Libertas really about delaying Lisbon until the British Conservatives came to power?

When did I vote to be a side cab?

On the 12th June.

Any comment about the opportunity to renegotiate?