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Thread: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

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    Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Kathy Sinnott speech

    at 10:05 Tuesday, 24th June 2008

    Slovenia has proudly and diligently carried the Presidency. In your summit, you decided to study why the Irish voted NO, so in response, I will repeat what I said last week, that Ireland was uneasy at finding its democracy eroding and its values changed.

    Ireland has a history that makes it especially value democracy. However, increasingly we find that our decision making power seems to be migrating to the Commission. However when questioned about particular decisions, the Commission defers to the National Authorities. Nobody seems to be responsible. An agreeable situation for nearly everyone except the citizen, the nation gets the regulation it wants as well as the revenue but ducks the responsibility. This is felt in day to day items such as the Water Framework Directive with its water charges. It was also felt in the run up to the referendum where some voices from Europe told us that the outcome of our vote didn’t matter, other voices threatened us with retribution and even expulsion from the EU if we did not get it right. Despite these threats or possibly because of them, a large number of Irish people voted against this Treaty.

    Concerning values. Many still considers Ireland a Christian nation, despite the recent decades of secularisation. We are uneasy at European voices calling for either a right to abortion or a right to euthanasia. It is only a year since this Parliament, the Council and the Commission in the Advanced Therapies Directive chose not to ban embryo destructive cloning, commercialisation of the human body and animal human hybrids. Shortly before that the 7th Framework Directive allowed EU funding for embryo destructive research. Only a year ago on 5th July 2007 here in the Parliament, a conference was held to promote Medically assisted dying and Euthanasia in Europe, it was well attended by MEPs and a large number of interested groups. As the conference progressed it was clear that they eagerly anticipated the coming into force of the Charter of Fundamental Rights which they felt with the right court cases would open the door to euthanasia Europe wide. None of this has gone unnoticed in Ireland. ?
     
    Further although those who wanted a yes vote constantly reminded the Irish of how well they have done out of Europe, for the fishing industry which struggles to survive, the profitable sugar industry which disappeared with the stroke of a Brussels pen, the building workers who are trying to live from job to job it just doesn't ring true.
     
    It is now clear that the large countries intend to force us to revote until we give a Yes to Lisbon. They have enlisted their willing allies from the political classes in Ireland, they who were so out of touch with the people that they were in shock at the outcome and angry at the voters.
     
    If you want the people of Ireland or anywhere else for that matter to embrace Europe you will have to listen to them telling you of the Europe they want and act on their concerns, otherwise they will vote no again.
     

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Well said Kathy. Shows once again how the claims of lies from the yes side are debunked. TCOFR would be used as a platform for advancing euthanasia and could be used for a Roe versus Wade style judgement on abortion.

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Quote Originally Posted by eurosceptic
    Well said Kathy. Shows once again how the claims of lies from the yes side are debunked. TCOFR would be used as a platform for advancing euthanasia and could be used for a Roe versus Wade style judgement on abortion.
    Yes, lets just ignore that the polls showd those two were not concerns....
    This kind of thing plays into the hands of people calling the no side crazies, and gives justification for a second referendum with a "declaration" saying there won't be abortion (ye know...like there wasn't before)
    Signed, Universal (LGBT...QRSTUVWXYZ)

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Quote Originally Posted by eurosceptic
    Well said Kathy. Shows once again how the claims of lies from the yes side are debunked. TCOFR would be used as a platform for advancing euthanasia and could be used for a Roe versus Wade style judgement on abortion.
    How does it "show" that?

    What it does show is that all No votes will be claimed by all parts of the No camp, even though euthanasia and abortion were very minor reasons for the No vote.
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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    A very good piece. Shame though that the EU cretins will ignore it.
    One of the moderators on here really wrecks my head with his/her power mad ego
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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Quote Originally Posted by eurosceptic
    Well said Kathy. Shows once again how the claims of lies from the yes side are debunked. TCOFR would be used as a platform for advancing euthanasia and could be used for a Roe versus Wade style judgement on abortion.
    Only by completly overturning the explicit protections provided for in theTreaties that the European Court of Justice is bound bythose same treaties to enforce. Far from nailing a lie, Sinnot (caught recently engaging in expenses scams she had previously denounced) merely repeats one.

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    She also made excellent points about lack of accountability and democracy too but i thought they were given. The yesmen never claimed that assertions that the EU had problems with accountability and democracy were lies. My point is that the yesmen sought to decry any expose of potentially controversial aspects of the treaty as "lies".

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Setanta you should take a look at the Roe versus Wade judgement. The US Supreme Court held there were implied rights to abortion in the Fundamental Rights section of the US constitution (they looked for something to bring in abortion because they wanted to). The ECJ could (and i am not saying that they would) come to the same conclusions re TCOFR. Look at TCOFR it's very vague and if you wanted to bring in abortion then there is plenty of angles to come at. It's unlikely to happen but it's a chance i wasnt willing to take. TCOFR was one of my principle objections to Lisbon. Our Maastrict protocol gives us protection on this front but i would be more worried if a case was taken to the ECJ from another EU country with a strict abortion law. If the ECJ made a fundamental rights decision would our maastrict protocol stand up?

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Quote Originally Posted by eurosceptic
    Setanta you should take a look at the Roe versus Wade judgement. The US Supreme Court held there were implied rights to abortion in the Fundamental Rights section of the US constitution (they looked for something to bring in abortion because they wanted to). The ECJ could (and i am not saying that they would) come to the same conclusions re TCOFR. Look at TCOFR it's very vague and if you wanted to bring in abortion then there is plenty of angles to come at. It's unlikely to happen but it's a chance i wasnt willing to take. TCOFR was one of my principle objections to Lisbon. Our Maastrict protocol gives us protection on this front but i would be more worried if a case was taken to the ECJ from another EU country with a strict abortion law. If the ECJ made a fundamental rights decision would our maastrict protocol stand up?
    Once we had the right to travel, we had abortion on demand, what difference does the location make?
    Signed, Universal (LGBT...QRSTUVWXYZ)

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    Re: Kathy Sinnott - Why Ireland voted NO to Lisbon

    Quote Originally Posted by Universal_001
    Quote Originally Posted by eurosceptic
    Setanta you should take a look at the Roe versus Wade judgement. The US Supreme Court held there were implied rights to abortion in the Fundamental Rights section of the US constitution (they looked for something to bring in abortion because they wanted to). The ECJ could (and i am not saying that they would) come to the same conclusions re TCOFR. Look at TCOFR it's very vague and if you wanted to bring in abortion then there is plenty of angles to come at. It's unlikely to happen but it's a chance i wasnt willing to take. TCOFR was one of my principle objections to Lisbon. Our Maastrict protocol gives us protection on this front but i would be more worried if a case was taken to the ECJ from another EU country with a strict abortion law. If the ECJ made a fundamental rights decision would our maastrict protocol stand up?
    Once we had the right to travel, we had abortion on demand, what difference does the location make?
    So by that rationale we have drugs on demand.
    "The Egyptians could run to Egypt, the Syrians into Syria. The only place we could run was into the sea, and before we did that we might as well fight.” -Golda Meir

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