Thank god we voted no last month. Did we really want to give more powers to brussels when this sarkozy advisor let rip in the Irish Times. Is continental politics returning to the principle of "people holding up progress" (the efficient governments of the 1930's)?
Well, popular will was the tool of one particular dictator. Or are you saying he was wrong?
Ireland interests are best secured within a more dynamic EU. Vote YES to Lisbon.
Hence the reason why the Germans have a constitutional ban on referenda.Originally Posted by geraghd
I have no grá for referendums. Lisbon shouldn't have been put to the people in the way it was. The Crotty judgement is wrong, but if it had to be put to referendum it should have broken up into pieces, or preferably just had a referendum on whatever bits the AG thought were constitutionally signifigant.
Economic Left/Right: -3.13; Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64
“University politics are so vicious, precisely because the stakes are so small.” Henry Kissinger
A lot of countries have realised that referenda are corruptible, particularly in the communications age. The 'governments' of the 1930s that you were refer to were largely empowered by referenda. More recently, the Bumese military junta were able to pass a referendum that guaranteed a fixed number of seats for the military in the national parliament, and in the 1960s in Ireland, FF had 2 cracks at getting rid of PR.
A demagogue is someone who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.
Referendums can be abused as can any forum. However to say that all referendums can be connected to those used by Mr.Hitler is outrageous. Didn't Mr.Hitler also abuse parliamentary democracy via his enabling act. So is parliamentary democracy a "tool for dictators" too??? Wasn't it some other eurocrats that called the french and dutch no's "blackmail". The Eurocrats dont want refrendums because ultimately parliaments will fall into line despite any reservations/objections. Lets not forget Mr.Sarkozy's admission that if he called areferendum there would be a no in france.
This is part of a pattern of authoriatarian thinking in the EU. I happen to be deeply worried at this creeping return of authoritarianism across europe on the grounds of efficiency, threats from rival economic heavyweights, resource security and the ever reliable "terrorism". Our next door neighbours now have 42 days detention for example. Recently an MEP called for restrictions on blogs (thread on p.ie on this). Any wonder i call myself eurosceptic.
Why do you hate democracy ?Hence the reason why the Germans have a constitutional ban on referenda.
I have no grá for referendums. Lisbon shouldn't have been put to the people in the way it was. The Crotty judgement is wrong, but if it had to be put to referendum it should have broken up into pieces, or preferably just had a referendum on whatever bits the AG thought were constitutionally signifigant.
Can you people on the Yes side not get it into your closed little heads... The Irish people were given a choice as to whether they wanted to accept the Lisbon Treaty or not.. and they said NO..
What ************************ing part of NO don't you understand... The "N" or the "O" ?
Jesus....
The UK's 42 day retention law, and one MEP calling for restrictions on blogs has nothing to do with the EU. Of course we will have one or more crackpot MEP, there are over 700 of them, it's bound to happen.
There are legitimate reasons not to have referendums, and the demagogue one is not the sole nor necessarily the most important or relevant one. Parliaments are accountable to the people, so if Parliament doesn't adequately represent the people (ie by this so-called falling in line argument you used above) the people have absolute power to get rid of them.
Ireland interests are best secured within a more dynamic EU. Vote YES to Lisbon.
What are you on about. We were there you know. We did read the news, heard the results. Noone is suggesting the Irish people said Yes.Why do you hate democracy ?Hence the reason why the Germans have a constitutional ban on referenda.
I have no grá for referendums. Lisbon shouldn't have been put to the people in the way it was. The Crotty judgement is wrong, but if it had to be put to referendum it should have broken up into pieces, or preferably just had a referendum on whatever bits the AG thought were constitutionally signifigant.
Can you people on the Yes side not get it into your closed little heads... The Irish people were given a choice as to whether they wanted to accept the Lisbon Treaty or not.. and they said NO..
What ************************ing part of NO don't you understand... The "N" or the "O" ?
Jesus....
Ireland interests are best secured within a more dynamic EU. Vote YES to Lisbon.
I'd like to see the EU introduce a Directive than requires Irish people to be fined for saying:
"What part of No don't you understand?"
It could be called the Cliche Directive.
A demagogue is someone who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.
Hence the reason why the Germans have a constitutional ban on referendaHence the reason why the Germans have a constitutional ban on referenda.
I have no grá for referendums. Lisbon shouldn't have been put to the people in the way it was. The Crotty judgement is wrong, but if it had to be put to referendum it should have broken up into pieces, or preferably just had a referendum on whatever bits the AG thought were constitutionally signifigant.
The Germans hold loads of referendums all the time - but a regional state level not Federal.
Also IIRC the Lisbon Treaty is also ratified state by state across the Federal Republic of Germany.
Sp it’s a myth to say the Germans don't do referendums and could not put it to the German People if they wanted to.
I doubt though it would be rejected by the Germans though as they are one of the biggest beneficiaries of this bloody Treaty!
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote