What's wrong with a two tier Europe anyway?

[returning officer]

This is a genuine question.

Given that Lisbon contained the only mechanism for leaving the EU (bar the Greenland precedent), we can't be booted out.
For businesses, the most valuable part of the EU is access to 500m people, the worst part is over-regulation and risk of harmonised taxation. The first remains, the second isn't expanded and the third is less likely.
So what if a number of core European countries move towards closer harmonisiation, can't we just rely on bi-lateral agreements with it?
If a two-tier EU is established, wouldn't the UK and Denmark join us?

[Squire Allworthy]

The only problem I can see is in relation to countries in the second tier becoming parasitic states.

Europe needs to move on so I dare say something will be cobbled together to enable it to do so. Somewhere in the mix we are lacking a vision of what we are and what we want to achieve.

[returning officer]

The only problem I can see is in relation to countries in the second tier becoming parasitic states.

What is wrong with that, we get the best of membership (the market, stable currency and some influence) without further erosion of sovereignty ie we can be more selctive in what regulations with run with. It pains me to say it, but perhaps David McWilliams was right when he pointed (I'm paraphasing his TV prgram) to a cross-roads being reached when Ireland stands a a chasm where a choice has to be made between Boston and Berlin and that Ireland's best position is as a City-state between the two (ok the comparison to Venice confused me too).

Europe needs to move on so I dare say something will be cobbled together to enable it to do so.

That is what they have always done. They trade more horses than Bertie can bet on.

Somewhere in the mix we are lacking a vision of what we are and what we want to achieve.

We haven't had a vison of our place in Europe since 1987 (and before that 1973). But then again, the Brits have been doing it constantly and their parties have been ignoring them.

[QuestionsQuigley]

Nothing is wrong with it.

[goosebump]

Nothing is wrong with it.

Unless you're a US company looking for a European base.

[QuestionsQuigley]

Nothing is wrong with it.

Unless you're a US company looking for a European base.

Please explain?

[Squire Allworthy]

[quote=returning officer]

The only problem I can see is in relation to countries in the second tier becoming parasitic states.

What is wrong with that, we get the best of membership (the market, stable currency and some influence) without further erosion of sovereignty ie we can be more selctive in what regulations with run with. It pains me to say it, but perhaps David McWilliams was right when he pointed (I'm paraphasing his TV prgram) to a cross-roads being reached when Ireland stands a a chasm where a choice has to be made between Boston and Berlin and that Ireland's best position is as a City-state between the two (ok the comparison to Venice confused me too).
[/quote:3dogt0wb]

So we remain in a position to place our tax rates, and God knows what else, so as to divert investment from the main body. A sort of take take relationship. I suppose we are small but can't see that sort of relationship lasting, either we come to a symbiotic relationship or a bit of de lousing is heading our way.

My guess is a lot of Euro speak, some frantic gestures a few concessions that in actuality mean nothing and a revote sometime in the depths of winter.

[goosebump]

Nothing is wrong with it.

Unless you're a US company looking for a European base.

Please explain?

Where would you locate your European HQ?

In the top tier where there is an internal market with totally undistorted competition?

Or in the second tier, where people are more concerned about abortion than economic issues?

[returning officer]

Nothing is wrong with it.

Unless you're a US company looking for a European base.

Please explain?

Where would you locate your European HQ?

In the top tier where there is an internal market with totally undistorted competition?

Or in the second tier, where people are more concerned about abortion than economic issues?

The one with lower taxes, which does not accept every regulation from Brussels.
Competition law and the internal market is the sole competence of the EU27. That has not changed.

[Squire Allworthy]

The one with lower taxes, which does not accept every regulation from Brussels.
Competition law and the internal market is the sole competence of the EU27. That has not changed.

Do you really believe that that is going to continue outside an agreement? Let us put it slightly differently imagine you were a German looking at this relationship? They are not daft and generally have been very accommodating to us and some other countries.

I shall enjoy Cowen's discomfort.