Lisbon's impact on Euro elections 2009

[corkman2007]

I am hostile to SF's domestic policies. Nonetheless I am seriously considering voting for them in the European elections (not Dail or local ones) because I feel there is a need for more balance between Euro-integrationist and sovereigntist sentiment regarding the Irish debate on the EU. At present it tilted too far in favour of the yes-men/women, with only 2 Eurosceptic TDs (McDonald and Sinnott).

Anyone else in my position? And how would the outcome of Lisbon impact - if at all - on the results of the Euro elections in 2009?

God help them. You're the anti-Midas of Irish politics. Everything you touch turns to sh*t. :mrgreen:

[woodie]

If you look at previous EU treaty referenda and subsequent elections, those politicians who took a strong eurosceptic stance subsequently bombed.

Dana Scallon and Patricia McKenna were prominent in the anti-Nice campaign yet both lost their seats in the next EP elections. Look how Mary Lou McDonald did in last year's General Election. Is it possible that the latest falls in SF's opinion poll results may have something to do with their stance against Lisbon?

I think the Irish population is generally pro-European and is wary of having reps in Europe who aren't.

Well, Sinn Féin got more votes than Labour in the last Europeans so the federalist approach seems to appeal less than "euroscepticism" whatever that is.

Yes and pro-European FF and FG got more than both. My point again is that I think Irish voters aren't keen on eurosceptics and that this will be reflected in next year's EP elections, the subject of this topic.

By the way, I see you still haven't dealt with my question on the contradictions in SF's policy on Europe.

[westkerryblue]

I will not post up my opinions of either of those two MEPs for fear of getting David sued.
If you read my previous posts, you will find I am no SF supporter.
Well let's just say I'd vote for the shinners above Sinnott. Many SF members have an IQ of over 100.

I heard her say once that the vapour trails of long haul planes are a good form of protection against UV radiation.

Given that 100 is the average and many usually refers to a sizable majority rather than a majority are you in fact suggesting that the average shinner has below average intelligence?

[FutureTaoiseach]

If you look at previous EU treaty referenda and subsequent elections, those politicians who took a strong eurosceptic stance subsequently bombed.

Dana Scallon and Patricia McKenna were prominent in the anti-Nice campaign yet both lost their seats in the next EP elections. Look how Mary Lou McDonald did in last year's General Election. Is it possible that the latest falls in SF's opinion poll results may have something to do with their stance against Lisbon?

I think the Irish population is generally pro-European and is wary of having reps in Europe who aren't.

I think a lot of pro-Europeans like me will vote no to Lisbon. I think that even many pro-Europeans are offended by the notion of forcing a Treaty on countries that have voted no to it. It's gotten beyond EU issues at this stage - it's about whether a country should have to pool sovereignty against its will or with its consent. A country choosing to cede its sovereignty to Brussels does not give them the right to force others to do so against their will - that's imperialism otherwise. The Irish people will reject Lisbon and of that I am certain at this stage. They do not like the direction Lisbon takes the EU in.

This is not about pro or anti-Europe. I have stated before (though some on this forum refuse to believe me) that I am pro-EU and pro the Euro currency. In polls, over 70% say EU membership is a good thing - yet substantially smaller percentages vote yes to EU treaties. That shows that many pro-EU people have concerns about the direction of the EU and the increasingly high-handed, 'let them eat cake' mentality that jackboots public opinion by cutting it out of the right to directly influence changes to the EU's institutions. There are some things in the Treaty that I agree with, such as increased powers for the European Parliament to veto EU laws they do not like. The problem is that this mechanism, known as co-decision, also includes abolition of national vetoes on the Council of Ministers in the same policy areas. We are losing vetoes on issues like energy and public health. I don't understand why we have to surrender control of our own health-service. How can this be justified? We would be left with almost no control over our own affairs other than education. This is unacceptable.

[Podolski]

What exactly does pro-European mean? With some people it means they are for a centralised, federalist and capitalist Europe. They seem to think that those who oppose this view don't like Europe but there's a difference between the EU which is a conservative and hide-bound bureaucracy (in its present format) and Europe which is a geographical continent.

The political Left has much older and stronger links with Europe than the likes of Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael who only came out of their isolationism in the late 1960s when they saw the gravy train in Brussels. It is not only possible to be anti-Lisbon and pro-Europe but it is also to be pro-Europe and opposed to the creation of a militarised EU superstate.

[QuizMaster]

I will not post up my opinions of either of those two MEPs for fear of getting David sued.
If you read my previous posts, you will find I am no SF supporter.
Well let's just say I'd vote for the shinners above Sinnott. Many SF members have an IQ of over 100.

I heard her say once that the vapour trails of long haul planes are a good form of protection against UV radiation.

Given that 100 is the average and many usually refers to a sizable majority rather than a majority are you in fact suggesting that the average shinner has below average intelligence?

Stoppit stoppit I'm in trouble with them already.
I was making a veiled attack on Sinnot. Do I have to spell it out?

[westkerryblue]

I will not post up my opinions of either of those two MEPs for fear of getting David sued.
If you read my previous posts, you will find I am no SF supporter.
Well let's just say I'd vote for the shinners above Sinnott. Many SF members have an IQ of over 100.

I heard her say once that the vapour trails of long haul planes are a good form of protection against UV radiation.

Given that 100 is the average and many usually refers to a sizable majority rather than a majority are you in fact suggesting that the average shinner has below average intelligence?

Stoppit stoppit I'm in trouble with them already.
I was making a veiled attack on Sinnot. Do I have to spell it out?

just letting ya know dat you gotta be very very careful with what you say......der are some fierce sharp bastards on this thing dat'll fry ya for breakfast if you're not careful hi