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  1. #5231
    sic transit sic transit is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlander12 View Post
    1), 3), 4), 6) and 7) are matters brought about deliberately by the Spanish govt, as indeed was this unnecessary election in the first place. As for 2), this was achieved almost entirely at the expense of Rajoy's own Catalan wing. It does not reflect any major shift to unionism, in fact the country remains split almost 50/50, as before.
    No to number 1; the status of Catalonia was agreed and voted on by Catalans. Number 7 is just a Catalan version of Brexit and companies not wanting to find themselves suddenly outside the EU. Catalonia is not a country, it's a region. It does seem to be an impasse but the real movement has to come from the pro-independence side if they want to persuade anyone else to switch sides. What has been learnt so far (or should have been learnt), is that just announcing independence brings about largely pointless elections.
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  2. #5232
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    At some point someone in Brussels is going to have say something.
    They don't have a positive record on such matters. The EU Council meeting in 1992 said they wouldn't recognise Croatia. Then a few days later Germany did and the others began to follow suit. Likewise in 1991 they agreed not to recognise Lithuania - until Iceland did so whereupon the others began to follow suit. A lot of it comes from fear of encouraging separatist movements in states like Spain, Belgium and to a lesser extent France abd formerly the UK.
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  3. #5233
    Ex celt Ex celt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    At some point someone in Brussels is going to have say something.
    I think that we are at that time. The SF/IRA Cultural Attachée Martina Anderson is putting the final touchs to a long awaited statement from the Joint West Belfast Venezuelan Freedom Workshy Symposium. This will be delivered in La Grand Place Brussels without a megaphone.
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  4. #5234
    caledhel caledhel is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    No to number 1; the status of Catalonia was agreed and voted on by Catalans. Number 7 is just a Catalan version of Brexit and companies not wanting to find themselves suddenly outside the EU. Catalonia is not a country, it's a region. It does seem to be an impasse but the real movement has to come from the pro-independence side if they want to persuade anyone else to switch sides. What has been learnt so far (or should have been learnt), is that just announcing independence brings about largely pointless elections.
    You're becoming tiresomely repetitive. This is a rote argument, not an active one. The Spanish government are using state power to silence legitimate democratic opposition. It's shameful.

    Puigdemont will have to return to Catalonia and seize the initiative. It's intolerable that he's being threatened with becoming a political hostage after the success of the independence alliance in the recent election. Catalunya is not in turmoil, it's really quite civilised and peaceful. Mount up Carles, Olé!
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  5. #5235
    caledhel caledhel is offline
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    Greece is an integral part of Turkey. We should agree for it to be reintegrated into the Turkish state as a precondition for Turkey agreeing to become a part of the EU.

    If Catalunya made the terrible mistake to become an independent state it would only lead to the sadness and economic devastation that Greece has experienced since it split from Turkey.

    The dangerous people promoting independence in Catalunya are placing the inhabitants at risk of mental health and economic maintenance costs. Clearly this democratic ploy is merely demonstrating the flawed nature of democracy. A strong leadership undisturbed by meddling is surely better.

    The Kingdom of Spain is glorious. Catalunya is but a jewel in the crown. It's foolish and foolhardy for them to think they're anything else, or else.
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  6. #5236
    sic transit sic transit is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by caledhel View Post
    You're becoming tiresomely repetitive. This is a rote argument, not an active one. The Spanish government are using state power to silence legitimate democratic opposition. It's shameful.

    Puigdemont will have to return to Catalonia and seize the initiative. It's intolerable that he's being threatened with becoming a political hostage after the success of the independence alliance in the recent election. Catalunya is not in turmoil, it's really quite civilised and peaceful. Mount up Carles, Olé!
    Well that's Spanish politics for you and facts are just so damned inconveniencing. You can only work with what's in front of you.

    Cataloņia remains part of the state so go figure. Puigdemont is a prize political twat but he and his buddies may well have to learn that this is not going to be resolved by confrontation, nor is just ignoring the very large chunk of people who did not vote for pro-independence parties.
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  7. #5237
    caledhel caledhel is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    Well that's Spanish politics for you and facts are just so damned inconveniencing. You can only work with what's in front of you.

    Cataloņia remains part of the state so go figure. Puigdemont is a prize political twat but he and his buddies may well have to learn that this is not going to be resolved by confrontation, nor is just ignoring the very large chunk of people who did not vote for pro-independence parties.
    Well, I don't think that it's all Puigdemont - I think that it's a very broad movement and the Catalonian people themselves have taken ownership of it and are determined to see it succeed.

    The fact is that the attitude that you're articulating is more appropriate to someone rocking in the corner softly muttering the word no, no, no and occasional knocking their head off the wall. Facts are inconvenient alright.
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  8. #5238
    sic transit sic transit is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by caledhel View Post
    Well, I don't think that it's all Puigdemont - I think that it's a very broad movement and the Catalonian people themselves have taken ownership of it and are determined to see it succeed.

    The fact is that the attitude that you're articulating is more appropriate to someone rocking in the corner softly muttering the word no, no, no and occasional knocking their head off the wall. Facts are inconvenient alright.
    The fact is Cataloņia is a part of Spain, the only fact that matters and it's something you just don't seem to be able to deal with. Puigdemont, whatever happens to him, is far more likely to be a liability.
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  9. #5239
    midlander12 midlander12 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    The fact is Cataloņia is a part of Spain, the only fact that matters and it's something you just don't seem to be able to deal with. Puigdemont, whatever happens to him, is far more likely to be a liability.
    'The fact is Ireland was a part of the UK' up to 1922. Was that 'the only fact that mattered'?

    Ditto all the former Yugoslav and USSR states, the Czech Rep and Slovakia, Algeria if you want to go back that far. It's a nonsensical argument.
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  10. #5240
    Ex celt Ex celt is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by midlander12 View Post
    'The fact is Ireland was a part of the UK' up to 1922. Was that 'the only fact that mattered'?

    Ditto all the former Yugoslav and USSR states, the Czech Rep and Slovakia, Algeria if you want to go back that far. It's a nonsensical argument.
    It’s a secret but Ireland is still effectively part of the UK.
    Ssshhh don’t be saying it but the secret is hidden in plain view.
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