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  1. #21
    TheKing TheKing is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollandia View Post
    Having benefited first hand in a number of ways from the mere existence of the EU, I would view myself as European first, and Irish second, and have done for at least fifteen years.
    Surely the biggest benefit is being born, thus using your own logic you should feel more Irish first because the biggest benefit came from being born in Ireland that gave you access to the EU.
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  2. #22
    gerhard dengler gerhard dengler is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gleeful View Post
    Germany unified at the end of the 19th century. I wonder how long it took people to 'feel German' instead of Saxon, Prussian, etc.
    Well the territory that became Germany shared a common language for starters. Granted you still have dialects such as Schwabish and Fränkisch, but a person from Franconia could easily communicate with some from Prussia.
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  3. #23
    gleeful gleeful is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Interestingly in many parts of the continent the attachment to the local and the European feelings are often stronger than the national. I know Spaniards who describe themselves as Murcian and Catalan Europeans first, then Spanish.
    True. And it might mean Spain wont survive what is coming. Similar in Belgium, Scotland, parts of Italy, etc. The EU makes regional identities possible - a Catalan Republic is basically a minor administrative change within the EU.
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  4. #24
    Man or Mouse Man or Mouse is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Interestingly in many parts of the continent the attachment to the local and the European feelings are often stronger than the national. I know Spaniards who describe themselves as Murcian and Catalan Europeans first, then Spanish.
    Even the Baltic states which are small, have minority languages which the EU has given support to and thus gained huge credit in those countries. That's the kind of thing the EU does well.
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  5. #25
    Deadlock Deadlock is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollandia View Post
    Having benefited first hand in a number of ways from the mere existence of the EU, I would view myself as European first, and Irish second, and have done for at least fifteen years.
    Similar experiences here. In a way they've fused for me. Being Irish is being European, and not in the narrow geographic sense.
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  6. #26
    Cdebru Cdebru is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollandia View Post
    Having benefited first hand in a number of ways from the mere existence of the EU, I would view myself as European first, and Irish second, and have done for at least fifteen years.

    I'm Irish first and always, but I'm also a citizen of the EU, the EU is not perfect but then neither is Ireland, it doesn't make me less Irish.
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  7. #27
    gleeful gleeful is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard dengler View Post
    Well the territory that became Germany shared a common language for starters. Granted you still have dialects such as Schwabish and Fränkisch, but a person from Franconia could easily communicate with some from Prussia.
    That was partly due to the teaching of a common German in schools across Germany for years before unification. Similar to how all educated people in the EU have been taught English for the past 40 years or so.
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  8. #28
    Deadlock Deadlock is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gleeful View Post
    True. And it might mean Spain wont survive what is coming. Similar in Belgium, Scotland, parts of Italy, etc. The EU makes regional identities possible - a Catalan Republic is basically a minor administrative change within the EU.
    I think to some extent, being also a shared identity, it also detoxifies the regional-national political mix too. Being Catalan isn't necessarily defined as an anti-Spanish sentiment, or Bavarian an anti-German one.
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  9. #29
    Disillusioned democrat Disillusioned democrat is offline
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    I think that's right up there with the survey that claimed 92% of the population trusted the Gardai.

    I think if I was asked to do a survey to justify my existence I'd get some pretty good results too.

    Any time I've done a survey I've know the outcome I wanted and asked the right questions and audience to get it.
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  10. #30
    hollandia hollandia is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKing View Post
    Surely the biggest benefit is being born, thus using your own logic you should feel more Irish first because the biggest benefit came from being born in Ireland that gave you access to the EU.
    Y'what now? Why not try something approaching logic? Or you could actually read what I've written.
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