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  1. #41
    HarryN HarryN is offline

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    Open borders and the welfare state are incompatible.

    Something's got to give.
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  2. #42
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    And just what is European culture?

    It amazes me that many Irish people are against immigration when Irish people had no issue with millions of its citizens, over the years, emigrating to the four corners of the world. At the moment there's around 50,000 undocumented Irish illegal immigrants in the USA. Is it a case of let the Irish go live where they like to make a better life for themselves legally and illegally, but don't let immigrants come to Europe? Let these people try to get to Europe if they want and then decide if they are entitled to stay. You only need to close and seal borders if you are at war
    Well it could be argued we had closer cultural ties with the US because of the mass emigration during the Famine. Most of the source countries today are not experiencing famine. Secondly we are very far from being the first safe country. Thirdly there was next to no social welfare system in the US when most of the Irish went there in the 19th and early 20th centuries (around 4 million may have left before 1920 and 1 million since). Fourthly we are a tiny source population whereas saw Nigeria is a massive one (one third of the US population alone). Fifthly the problem of international Islamic terrorism which was not there before 1948.

    What is European culture? Its a culture where people like Salman Rushdie don't risk assassination because of something he wrote nearly 30 years ago. Where LGBT people dont risk execution or murder by Islamic fanatics. Where women are not forced into marriage on pain of honor-killings or banned from driving cars. Its a culture where you dont get massacred for satirical cartoons. In my opinion that European culture (or western culture) is worth preserving. Are these migrants coming here to share in this culture or to undermine it? Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Salman Rushdie know the answer.
    Last edited by Dame_Enda; 2nd August 2015 at 10:08 AM.
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  3. #43
    Seanie Lemass Seanie Lemass is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    And just what is European culture?

    It amazes me that many Irish people are against immigration when Irish people had no issue with millions of its citizens, over the years, emigrating to the four corners of the world. At the moment there's around 50,000 undocumented Irish illegal immigrants in the USA. Is it a case of let the Irish go live where they like to make a better life for themselves legally and illegally, but don't let immigrants come to Europe? Let these people try to get to Europe if they want and then decide if they are entitled to stay. You only need to close and seal borders if you are at war

    And Israel lets anyone who wants to come does it?
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  4. #44
    Seanie Lemass Seanie Lemass is offline

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    Good answer Dame Edna regarding European culture. Indeed L'Chaim should know that better than most given Israel's position in the eyehole of the storm, defending those very values.
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  5. #45
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
    Good answer Dame Edna regarding European culture. Indeed L'Chaim should know that better than most given Israel's position in the eyehole of the storm, defending those very values.
    He should know better but on the other hand Israel also does much to undermine those values by its brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Administrative detention has no parallel in the West aside perhaps from Guantanamo.
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  6. #46
    Trampas Trampas is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    He should know better but on the other hand Israel also does much to undermine those values by its brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Administrative detention has no parallel in the West aside perhaps from Guantanamo.

    There doesn't seem to be any thread on here that cannot be turned into yet another Israel bashing forum.
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  7. #47
    seabhcan seabhcan is offline
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    BBC World Service just had an excellent documentary on the migrant crisis. They interview some of the migrants - these people have paid up to $50,000 to smuggle their families to Europe. These are not poor people, certainly not by african standards. They are engineers, software engineers, doctors, etc.

    BBC World Service - Assignment , A Mediterranean Rescue

    The reporter makes the comment that their migration is enabled by the rising wealth of the African middle class - not by poverty.

    I strongly think these people should be sent home. They have a moral duty to work at home, in the place that educated them, and to improve their own countries.
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  8. #48
    Lara2 Lara2 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan View Post
    BBC World Service just had an excellent documentary on the migrant crisis. They interview some of the migrants - these people have paid up to $50,000 to smuggle their families to Europe. These are not poor people, certainly not by african standards. They are engineers, software engineers, doctors, etc.

    BBC World Service - Assignment , A Mediterranean Rescue

    The reporter makes the comment that their migration is enabled by the rising wealth of the African middle class - not by poverty.

    I strongly think these people should be sent home. They have a moral duty to work at home, in the place that educated them, and to improve their own countries.
    Yes I agree, to a point, there is a lot of money exchanging hands.

    That last point you made though, should we apply that to our own doctors, engineers etc that emigrate abroad after getting their free education here? Should they not be staying here to improve their own country?
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  9. #49
    nonpartyboy nonpartyboy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryN View Post
    Open borders and the welfare state are incompatible.

    Something's got to give.
    And those who advocate for more welfare (Lab/SF/PBP) are the very people who are huge supporters of mass immigration, that they can't even see the stupidity of their own position tells you alot about them.
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  10. #50
    HarryN HarryN is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara2 View Post
    Yes I agree, to a point, there is a lot of money exchanging hands.

    That last point you made though, should we apply that to our own doctors, engineers etc that emigrate abroad after getting their free education here? Should they not be staying here to improve their own country?
    Lara, that's a lazy argument that's been trotted out relentlessly by lefty liberals.

    We welcome immigrants that fill our employment requirements in the same way as Aus/Can/US do when it comes to our emigrants. That's standard international best practice.

    To compare people who enter a country illegally and sneakily to those who apply for work visas in the correct manner is comparing apples and oranges.
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