Should Turkey be allowed enter the EU?

[Insider2007]

There have been threads on this issue before but i´ll answer nevertheless. It is not important whether we ordinary people of the EU support or oppose Turkish EU-membership because Turkey will not be allowed to join the EU.

There are various easily explainable excuses against the Turkish membership ranging from their immature democracy, poor human rights record and their geographic location outside Europe. Another widely voiced sc reason for opposing Turkish membership is that Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country.

However,all these are just excuses. The real reason why Turkey won´t be allowed in is the size of the country. The population of Turkey is about 70m and rising fast. If their population were 7m none of the aforementioned reasons would apply.

Turkish membership would destroy the carefully built balance of power within the EU because even though Turkey is an economic dwarf, its size would guarantee it a position of a political giant.

Turkey will never become a member-state of the EU.

Superb points (as usual) THR. You are one of our best posters for thought-provoking ideas and analyses.

[Shankill Browser]

(2) Culturally and geographically Turkey is not part of Europe.-Only 3% of the country lies in Europe. It is predominantly Moslem.

I agree with what you say about the time, just now, not being right but I'd have to ask about point (2).

Can you say about the 3% figure? From whose definition of where Europe ends does that come? Since the 18th century, Europe has been often said to end / begin at the Ural mountains. Turkey lies to the west of the Ural mountains.
The Moslem thing. Religion has never been a condition of membership or indeed has the EU ever brought up the topic in any EU / Turkey talks. However, I do see where you are coming from with this one in light of the world today.

[drbob1972]

sorry, soubresauts but have to disagree i believe that geography, culture, etc do indeed play a very important part in what the EU has become, if it was just an economic block then that would be different however it is in many ways becoming more and more of a federal super state, we cannot simply admit and endless stream of countries, esp those that do not share our values and belief's. Israel, Lebanon, Morocco (whom did actually apply), etc do not belong in a european context, as they are simply not what the majority of us regard as europeans. look at the challenges we are facing with the intergration of some eastern european countries, with whom we share a cultural and religious base with, and look at the problems countries like France and Germany have with intergrating north africans and turks, can you imagine the impact of whole countries such as morocco and turkey would have on the EU ?

[The Earl of Desmond]

I'd have no problem letting Israel become a member as long as Israel was a Jewsish state but for Turkey or any Muslim state - under no circumstances - no no no and if that makes me racist - then so be it. I can write tomes on why I do not want anything to do with a Muslim country - but nor do I wish them any violence I just do not feel we hsare the same values - but I suspect my opinion will get drowned out in screams of racism as it seems that is the default reaction of those who want to blame the west for Muslim violence and is used as a convenient way of avoiding making Muslims taking responsibility for their own failings.

[JCSkinner]

I'd oppose Israeli membership for a ton of reasons - their illegitimate occupation of Palestine being foremost among them. But again, a simple principle pertains. It's not in Europe. Case closed.

[The Earl of Desmond]

I'd oppose Israeli membership for a ton of reasons - their illegitimate occupation of Palestine being foremost among them. But again, a simple principle pertains. It's not in Europe. Case closed.

First off JC there is no such place as Palestine and second off do you know why Israel is in the West Bank and Gaza in the first place? Let me remind you then .... Israel was invaded by Arab countries in 1967 but shock horror instead of them wiping out Israel they were soundly beaten by Israel and as Israel pushed the armies out of its UN approved borders it kept going in the way that you do when you want people far away from you and at the end of it Israle was in the Golan Heights, the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza and West Bank, ISrale has stated time and again it will leave Gaza and West Bank when it knows for sure it will not be invaded again. It has peace agreements with Egypt so it left the Sinai Peninusla and it has a peace agreement with Jordan so it left the Golan Heights and if the Palestines can live up to any peace agreement then Israel will leave Gaza and or West Bank but that begs the question of where a Palestinian state will be as it is not sustainable in 2 locations.

So spare me the Israel is to blame for Muslims being nutters rubbish.

[Reggie Perrin]

To answer that simply... NO Turkey and equally NO Israel in the EU (unlike the farce that is a Song Contest).... they ain't part of the territory, they never can be and they never will be .... idealogical viewpoint sadly but ideaology doesnt work

[Reggie Perrin]

I'd oppose Israeli membership for a ton of reasons - their illegitimate occupation of Palestine being foremost among them. But again, a simple principle pertains. It's not in Europe. Case closed.

First off JC there is no such place as Palestine and second off do you know why Israel is in the West Bank and Gaza in the first place? Let me remind you then .... Israel was invaded by Arab countries in 1967 but shock horror instead of them wiping out Israel they were soundly beaten by Israel and as Israel pushed the armies out of its UN approved borders it kept going in the way that you do when you want people far away from you and at the end of it Israle was in the Golan Heights, the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza and West Bank, ISrale has stated time and again it will leave Gaza and West Bank when it knows for sure it will not be invaded again. It has peace agreements with Egypt so it left the Sinai Peninusla and it has a peace agreement with Jordan so it left the Golan Heights and if the Palestines can live up to any peace agreement then Israel will leave Gaza and or West Bank but that begs the question of where a Palestinian state will be as it is not sustainable in 2 locations.

So spare me the Israel is to blame for Muslims being nutters rubbish.

A point to be made but not in this thread

[JCSkinner]

I'd oppose Israeli membership for a ton of reasons - their illegitimate occupation of Palestine being foremost among them. But again, a simple principle pertains. It's not in Europe. Case closed.

First off JC there is no such place as Palestine and second off do you know why Israel is in the West Bank and Gaza in the first place? Let me remind you then .... Israel was invaded by Arab countries in 1967 but shock horror instead of them wiping out Israel they were soundly beaten by Israel and as Israel pushed the armies out of its UN approved borders it kept going in the way that you do when you want people far away from you and at the end of it Israle was in the Golan Heights, the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza and West Bank, ISrale has stated time and again it will leave Gaza and West Bank when it knows for sure it will not be invaded again. It has peace agreements with Egypt so it left the Sinai Peninusla and it has a peace agreement with Jordan so it left the Golan Heights and if the Palestines can live up to any peace agreement then Israel will leave Gaza and or West Bank but that begs the question of where a Palestinian state will be as it is not sustainable in 2 locations.

So spare me the Israel is to blame for Muslims being nutters rubbish.

This isn't the thread for another rigmarole around the Middle-East. But I will suffice to say that you are well aware that opinion, history and perspectives are divided on all the items you present as facts above. As you are also aware, I am of the differing opinion to you in this regard.
But irrespective of Israel's illegitimacy, its state-sponsored terrorism, its occupation of others' land, its dangerous nuclear capacity and the general dislikeability of its citizenry, Israel cannot be a candidate for the EU due to the fact that it's not in ************************ing Europe.
Again, case closed.

[The Earl of Desmond]

True but it drives me mad the way people display such ignorance of basic facts when it concerns the middle east - whatever about differing opinions there are still basic facts which remain the same no matter what point of view one has but still no no no to Turkey and at least France has a leader with the balls to say so - by all means free trade and all that.