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About LinkBacksSmoke and mirrors may well be the only way through this thing.Originally Posted by Astral Peaks
Interestingly, I see the Graun's history of typos carries over into their online life; someone posting below the line spotted it, too.
Smoke and mirrors may well be the only way through this thing.
Interestingly, I see the Graun's history of typos carries over into their online life; someone posting below the line spotted it, too.
Last edited by statsman; 8th February 2012 at 09:52 AM.
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. - Mark Twain
Rumors That ECB Will Transfer Greek Bonds To EFSF | ZeroHedgeThere are some positives in this. Greece would get additional savings. With holdings of over €50 billion, a 50% principal write down would be helpful to the overall situation. It would also make it more clear that the bonds held by the ECB aren’t effectively subordinating other debtholders. Those are positives.
There are also some definitive negatives. Let’s say they transfer bonds at a price of 80% of par. Then the EFSF would lose about 50% of par immediately (assuming a post restructuring price of 60% for the new bonds). That would be a loss of over €25 billion. It is just taking money from the EFSF. That is bad on a couple of fronts. The obvious thing is that the ability to leverage EFSF at all (and yes, some politicians continue to talk about that) is basically gone. If the Troika will just use the EFSF as a way to bury losses they don’t want to take directly, no one will lend to EFSF on a leveraged basis. Since most people doubt EFSF would be leveraged, it doesn’t have a huge impact, but is important.
"What all the wise men promised has not happened and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass". Lord Melborne, on Catholic emancipation in Ireland
Zerohedge you should take with a pince of salt. They have an anti-european agenda and some dodgy US right wingers.
Leaving that aside, EFSF taking over the Greek bonds has done the rounds of the traders, as has haircuts of 70% across the board instead of specific bonds.
Some Greek idiot involved in the negotiations is spreading muck to dealers so as to create as many problems as possible, during the negotiations.
I personally don't think the EFSF should take on the bonds unless they have a haircut of at least 70% first, otherwise everyone in Europe, including Ireland will end up paying for every Greek civil servants holiday home and writing of there debt. It would be equivalent to giving every Irish developer a complete wiping out of their debts and then handing them unlimited credit to do the whole thing over again.
A debt haircut of at least 70%, preferably 80%, before any moves are made by the ECB or EFSF, is the safest thing for all of us in europe in the long run.
Last edited by Nemesiscorporation; 8th February 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Greece: 'There's no more left to cut' - Europe - World - The IndependentThat's enough, we can't take it anymore." That was the popular chant coming from protesters in Athens yesterday during the latest 24-hour general strike against the country's austerity measures. Teachers and doctors joined bank employees to demonstrate against a new round of expected cuts as the cash-strapped country continued to negotiate new reductions in spending to help keep the economy afloat.
How long before the Police and Army join the Doctors and Teachers?
The country is collapsing before our eyes all in order to maintain the status of rich elites.
Greece: 'There's no more left to cut' - Europe - World - The Independent"People are scared and haven't really realised what's happening yet," George Pantsios, an electrician for the country's public power corporation, said. He has only been receiving half of his €850 monthly wage since August. "But once we all lose our jobs and can't feed our kids, that's when it'll go boom and we'll turn into Tahrir Square."
Read this line again people.
He has only been receiving half of his €850 monthly wage since August
Now tell me again why the Greek people should pay more austerity?
As said yesterday, it will be interesting to see what actually happens to Greece if they default. With all the threats and scare mongering made to the Irish lately it would be actually kind of interesting to see if the world really does come to an end for the people of Greece.
When you see the people on the streets there, they clearly do not want this bailout. So why shove it down their throats? Are the ECB and company so arrogant that they will tell them to do and take what the people of that sovereign nation do not want? Why are they treating the Greek people as stupid? They don’t want it.. let them default and see what happens.
Much like what is happening here if not on such a grand scale. The Irish elites have worked their angle very well these last few years and i suppose they should be given credit for that. They look after their own because they know they have a population that fails to stand up against them time and time again.
Andrea, with the haircuts you propose here where is Europe to find any investment in the future?
"What all the wise men promised has not happened and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass". Lord Melborne, on Catholic emancipation in Ireland
Some live streams if anyone wants to watch.
2 Live Stream Greece Protest - TV Greek Riots Video Feed - 12160
Jeez, do they have to collapse the euro today? I was hoping to go out jogging. You just can't blink at the moment without a currency collapsing.
"He was a man who used to notice such things"
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