Roche: "Ireland will be supporting the charter"

[solair]

Roche: "Ireland will be supporting the charter" (News at One)

Dick Roche, Ireland's minister for European Affairs was on News at One earlier today and it doesn't seem that we're opting out, rather we're looking at what the British are getting first.

See what you make of it:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0626/news1p ... 95,242,209

[cilldara]

Just wait for the referedum now Roche, you can't be too sure

[FutureTaoiseach]

What I make of it is that this aspect of the treaty is far too vague to risk accepting. The Charter itself is far too vague - the reference to "the right to strike" particularly disturbs me as an economic liberal. I do not believe in an unconditional right to strike like in some EU states with 10% unemployment. I also oppose the Charter's ban on "mass-expulsions" as it may prevent deportations of illegal immigrants. It's ban on discrimination on grounds of nationality could force us to allow non-citizens the vote in General Elections and could - on the long-term - open the door to political-Islam and Sharia law. No thanks.

[solair]

Well, the EU has a long history of being unable to explain itself in any kind of a coherent way. Even those of us who have studied the EU institutions often find them boring, complicated and it can be difficult to remember what each bit does.

There's really an urgent need for reform of EU communications.

[Eirenua]

Just wait for the referedum now Roche, you can't be too sure

Referendum? Do you think that the little problem of a referendum is going to stop this government accepting this treaty. Remember the Nice treaty when the majority rejected it and the government went and held another because it would not respect the wish of the people. Our opinion does not matter.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Our opinion must matter Eirenua which is why this time, if it's rejected the first time, we must vote it down again. I think a key difference from Nice is that - with France and Holland not suffering any negative consequences from rejecting the Constitution since then - any threats of consequences against Ireland for voting no to the "Reform Treaty" will carry comparatively little credibility.

[cilldara]

Just wait for the referedum now Roche, you can't be too sure

Referendum? Do you think that the little problem of a referendum is going to stop this government accepting this treaty. Remember the Nice treaty when the majority rejected it and the government went and held another because it would not respect the wish of the people. Our opinion does not matter.

I reckon if the no vote pushes through the Greens and McGrath would object to a second vote.

[corkman2007]

What I make of it is that this aspect of the treaty is far too vague to risk accepting. The Charter itself is far too vague - the reference to "the right to strike" particularly disturbs me as an economic liberal. I do not believe in an unconditional right to strike like in some EU states with 10% unemployment. I also oppose the Charter's ban on "mass-expulsions" as it may prevent deportations of illegal immigrants. It's ban on discrimination on grounds of nationality could force us to allow non-citizens the vote in General Elections and could - on the long-term - open the door to political-Islam and Sharia law. No thanks.

a. Economic liberal my hole! What's wrong with a right to strike? Striking is part of the free market mechanisms that you support isn't it?

b. That article (Article 19) doesn't ban mass expulsions. It bans collective expulsions (i.e. that everyone from a particular group gets expelled, regardless of whether they've done anything to justify expulsion). The article is designed to stop ethnic cleansing, not the deportation of illegal immigrants.

c. Certain non-citizens have the right to vote at General Elections. Brits resident in Ireland have this right. If they've got that right why shouldn't other EU citizens? Either scrap the right of British to vote or allow all EU citizens to vote. That law is discriminatory.

How many Muslims are there in Ireland anyway? Do you seriously think that Muslims are going to be a majority of the Irish electorate ever? Do you think that they'd all support the introduction of Sharia Law? What's with the bullsh*t scaremongering?

[The OD]

What I make of it is that this aspect of the treaty is far too vague to risk accepting. The Charter itself is far too vague - the reference to "the right to strike" particularly disturbs me as an economic liberal. I do not believe in an unconditional right to strike like in some EU states with 10% unemployment. I also oppose the Charter's ban on "mass-expulsions" as it may prevent deportations of illegal immigrants. It's ban on discrimination on grounds of nationality could force us to allow non-citizens the vote in General Elections and could - on the long-term - open the door to political-Islam and Sharia law. No thanks.

What's with the bullsh*t scaremongering?

Its his thing - its what he does.

[forest]

we're looking at what the British are getting first.

What kind of policy is that, we might as well pull out now if our attitude is
"We'll do what the brits do"