German Foreign Minister: Europe left Socialism Behind 2 Decades Ago

[james5001]

You don't get anywhere by being a dove. Except subjugated, that is. Nothing wrong with military spending; Ireland should have done more of it so that they wouldn't have to worry about being Germany's vassal nowadays.

Ireland didn't pursue policies like this and we weren't ''subjugated'', in relative terms anyway. And there is something wrong with military spending on the scale which they carried out.

[bormotello]

regarding the second point in bold- Generally, co-op jobs are better paid overall because the wages are distributed more equally.

This is one of the reasons probably why co-ops are not popular - workers don't want to pay for underperformers

Regarding your last point- The Soviet Union had nothing similar to socialism. They decreased worker control over production when communism was installed.

It was attempts to give full control immediately after revolution, but it was quickly abandoned after learning that workers are not interested in increasing performance and doing what they need, not what they want. This is why Trotsky had to propose labour armies and later Stalin came with softer solution by leaving most of workers free, but using slave labour from Gulag

[bormotello]

Not true. They were not free market capitalist at all. Both of them, and especially reagan, usedmassive military spending to improve the economy.

Main purpose of massive military spending had nothing similar with free market economy, it was more about destruction USSR economically.

[james5001]

[QUOTE=bormotello;4857064]

This is one of the reasons probably why co-ops are not popular - workers don't want to pay for underperformers

They wouldn't be paying for under performers. They could democratically get rid of people who are not doing their work properly.

It was attempts to give full control immediately after revolution, but it was quickly abandoned after learning that workers are not interested in increasing performance and doing what they need, not what they want. This is why Trotsky had to propose labour armies and later Stalin came with softer solution by leaving most of workers free, but using slave labour from Gulag

You have no evidence to back that up, do you? It wasn't abandoned at all, they actually made conditions worse in that respect.

[james5001]

Main purpose of massive military spending had nothing similar with free market economy, it was more about destruction USSR economically.

I agree it had nothing to do with the free market, it can't be called a ''free market'' if a lot of the system is held up with government spending. We must look at the reasons why they wanted to destroy them economically. That is the important part.

[asknoquestions]

The term "Sozialismus" is probably rarely used in Germany because there aren't that many socialists.... those who see themselves as such have no problem describing themselves as such. Although a certain proportion of the public would probably tend to associate the term with the ideology of the old East German Regime (which ironicly included two parties that subsequently merged with Westerwelle's FDP).
The term "Nationalismus" is used in the same sense as the term "nationalism" in English, but only when referring to political forces outside of Germany or when criticising someone else. I can't recall ever coming across someone using this term as a self-description, although there is a related term "national" which is used as a self-description of the political ideology of the far right. No mainstream politician, not even on the extreme right of the CDU or CSU, would describe themself as nationalistic.
Westerwelle probably refused to take the question in english because he was afraid of embarrassing himself. He is habitually ridiculed for his poor english ever since this clip became popular.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYGP...?v=lLYGPWQ0VjY

His English is not that bad by comparison with some other politicians (Matthias Makgrath for example) but his answer was nationalistic and obtuse for a foreign minister. There are plenty of other reasons to habitually ridicule him, his English is probably the least of them.

Westerwelle refuses to speak english on german press conference - YouTube

[Al.]

Ireland didn't pursue policies like this and we weren't ''subjugated'', in relative terms anyway

Relative to what?

Simply saying that we weren't subjugated doesn't make the status quo of being subjugated go away. Germany is dictating our fiscal policies, just as their proxy government in Brussels has been dictating just about every other sovereign policy for years.

And there is something wrong with military spending on the scale which they carried out.

And your arbitrary judgement is based on exactly what? Your ephemeral "something wrong" is crying out for a definition; let's hear it.

[paddyrebel]

international socialism is alive and well in europe. they just keep it quiet.

[james5001]

Relative to what?

Simply saying that we weren't subjugated doesn't make the status quo of being subjugated go away. Germany is dictating our fiscal policies, just as their proxy government in Brussels has been dictating just about every other sovereign policy for years.And your arbitrary judgement is based on exactly what? Your ephemeral "something wrong" is crying out for a definition; let's hear it.

Relative to the countries that had a minimal military but it's citizens were brutalised and murdered. Having a strong military doesn't get rid of the idea of subjugation. Take N Korea for example. They have nukes but they are being subjugated by the government that controls them. The united states has the biggestmilitary in the world, but their citizens are under subjugation by their rulers, ie the corporations and business parties. And I believe it is wrong because there is no need for it on such a scalewhilst there are 3.5 million people experiencing homelessness in a given year.