Fiscal Union Referendum very possible, very soon: Would you vote Yes or No?

[BlueNovember]

All the noises from Europe, particularly Germany's likely condition that it be a pre-requisite for their assent to the ECB's being let loose to issue Eurobonds and print money, make a fiscal union referendum a probability, even if they try to get around the constitutional requirement for one.

For years now, attested to in my posts on the Lisbon Treaty referendums since 2008, I have argued that our participation in monetary union has made inevitable our having to sign up for European fiscal union. Our political class has, for over a decade or more, lied or deluded themselves that there was no reason to think such a thing, that it was perfectly rational to sign up for the one and not the other, despite not being able to adequately answer the question 'well, why bother with monetary union in the first place if it wasn't a step on the road to full union?'.

Posters here (I won't name them, but they're still around) ridiculed me for saying that fiscal union was inevitable, or else said that it would be a voluntary sovereign decision if it ever came up (to which I responded that such decisions are never voluntary - a political momentum builds up behind the asssertion that a 'no' is 'holding up progress', and that the guilty party will suffer consequences, or be vilified, or be given an ultimatum 'either you're fully in or fully out'. A financial crisis (as I also stated) provides the perfect 'shock doctrine'-style opportunity to scare populations or less-willing governments to sign up for the 'do or die' proposals. We are now seeing this happening.

What is about to happen is a fulfillment of every expectation I have had - we will be required to sign up for fiscal union or risk being vilified as the people who 'sank the Euro', or else be told that the ropes will be cut. Either we will be presented with another referendum, or be told that no referendum is required (which I suspect they'll try) under existing treaties and protocols (perhaps we will finally see whether the infamous 'ratchet clause' was myth or reality!).

If there is a referendum, part of me would like to see a 'no' vote, but the rest of me thinks it is futile - monetary union without fiscal union is an absurdity, always was. The time to prevent fiscal union was at the time of the vote on monetary union, it is rather late now. I also suspect that all sorts of hellfire and damnation will be threatened or implied to ensure that no-one dares vote 'no', and that people are now simply too scared to do other than they are told by the received wisdom of the European political classes. If I still lived in Ireland I'm not sure I'd bother campaigning any more, resistance being very futile.

What about you? The question might very soon be coming (is likely, in fact). Yes or no to fiscal union?

Regardless of the the initial result of a referendum,we'll be "yes".

[Chadster]

After a lifetime of seeing our budgets hijacked for political purposes by various FF governments, and knowing what the dastardly Europeans have done in their countries with the public purse, I'd be inclined to vote yes.

you want to abdicate responsibility and hope someone else fixes our problems? remember the likes of Cowen and Aherne were very popular in brussels.

[Chadster]

Regardless of the the initial result of a referendum,we'll be "yes".

I cant see it happening, it would lead to bloodshed surley?

[ibis]

To be honest, I don't think we'll actually qualify for a couple of years. Nor do I think a yes or no is meaningful without seeing the details.

[ibis]

you want to abdicate responsibility and hope someone else fixes our problems? remember the likes of Cowen and Aherne were very popular in brussels.

No, actually, they weren't.

[Chadster]

All the p.ie posters with no savings will vote no. I will vote YES.

If you dont really care about this country why dont you just move to germany?

[Chadster]

No, actually, they weren't.

Was the bert not made president twice in a row? first time it ever happened? does he not still to this day make alot of money travelling around informing like minded scum how he hoodwinked the people of this country?

[Dublin 4]

I would vote a proud yes to the fiscal union of the eurozone States.
I never thought I see it so soon. I figured another 20-30 years.
Here's hoping......

Bit to go yet h

Twitter

[toxic avenger]

For those who say they will vote 'no' despite voting 'yes' to monetary union, could you explain to me the sense of monetary union without fiscal union? It simply doesn't make any sense to me.

Surely the time to stop fiscal union was at the time of the vote on monetray union, given what I believe to be the utter absurdity of one without the other (one of my very reasons for opposing monetary union in the first place).

I give the low Corporation Tax rate 5 years at most, possibly less...

[Gimpanzee]

you want to abdicate responsibility and hope someone else fixes our problems? remember the likes of Cowen and Aherne were very popular in brussels.

Popular? Not sure where you got that idea.