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Thread: Treaty establishing the European stability mechanism (ESM): text link and discussion

  1. #21
    Politics.ie Member The Caped Cod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WellNow View Post
    How nice of you to wish the EU luck. Notice how the swastika is not tilted. This makes it a normal swastika
    Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian Religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a sacred symbol of good luck.
    When the Nazis hijacked this symbol Hitler had the swastika tilted, thus making a symbolic change
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Caped Cod View Post
    How nice of you to wish the EU luck. Notice how the swastika is not tilted. This makes it a normal swastika


    When the Nazis hijacked this symbol Hitler had the swastika tilted, thus making a symbolic change
    Eh, no - it's the mirror reversal, not the tilt, that makes the difference. The Nazi swastika is a mirrored manji symbol.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpurs
    Will it change the essential scope or objectives of the EU? The text is as ever opaque and will take a good few days to digest. It does create a new EU institution with substantial powers however crotty lost his appeal over the creation of new institutions.
    Actually, it doesn't create a new EU institution. It creates a new European institution which uses the EU's capabilities.
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

  3. #23
    Politics.ie Member SilverSpurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibis View Post

    Actually, it doesn't create a new EU institution. It creates a new European institution which uses the EU's capabilities.
    New Labour would have been proud of you my dear lad!
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibis View Post
    Eh, no - it's the mirror reversal, not the tilt, that makes the difference. The Nazi swastika is a mirrored manji symbol.
    My understanding is that it can be used in either direction both eixisting long before Nazism. A
    In Japan, the swastika is called manji. Since the Middle Ages, it has been used as a coat of arms by various Japanese families such as Tsugaru clan, Hachisuka clan or around 60 clans that belong to Tokugawa clan.[25] On Japanese maps, a swastika (left-facing and horizontal) is used to mark the location of a Buddhist temple. The right-facing manji is often referred to as the gyaku manji (逆卍, lit. "reverse manji") or migi manji (右卍, lit. "right manji") , and can also be called kagi jūji (literally "hook cross").
    And yes, the tilt was a Nazi adaption. On Hitler's own orders, as was the idea to put it in a white circle on a red background.
    "Authority that cannot be questioned is tyranny and I will not accept tyranny, any tyranny, even that of heaven."
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty View Post
    Many thanks. I am reading it now.
    Great. It is plainly written for the most part and the meat of it can be found quickly enough.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwoody View Post
    yawn fest its no wonder nobodys interested, why isnt if passed allready?
    In case you have woken up since, he is another sleeping aid for you. X Factor will be on later.

    As well as having €700 billion available to it through the member states, the new body can itself borrow, without limit.

    "ARTICLE 17
    Borrowing operations
    1. The ESM shall be empowered to borrow on the capital markets from banks, financial institutions or other persons or institutions for the performance of its purpose.
    2. The modalities of the borrowing operations shall be determined by the Managing Director, in accordance with detailed guidelines to be adopted by the Board of Directors."

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra Syndrome View Post
    ...

    Central Planning ends in tears. Do they not know that at this stage?
    They do but they may see that as secondary to the fact that it maintains them in well paid jobs along the way.

    Meanwhile, there seems to be some fuss in Germany about how this will work and who will have the last word.

    German officials say new bailout fund will not be beyond politicians' control

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpurs View Post
    New Labour would have been proud of you my dear lad!
    Nah - they preferred inaccuracy, as you do. Seriously, the ESM isn't an "EU institution". That's a major part of the criticism that has been levelled at it, because it's an intergovernmental body without any of the added accountability that making it an EU institution would mean - no Parliament oversight, none of the transparency legislation, no rights of legal challenge or redress, nada.
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibis View Post
    Nah - they preferred inaccuracy, as you do. Seriously, the ESM isn't an "EU institution". That's a major part of the criticism that has been levelled at it, because it's an intergovernmental body without any of the added accountability that making it an EU institution would mean - no Parliament oversight, none of the transparency legislation, no rights of legal challenge or redress, nada.
    It is a bit of a mongrel really, by design. Look at this selection of treaty references tying it to various EU treaty provisions and institutions -

    WHEREAS:
    (1) The European Council agreed on 17 December 2010 on the need for euro area Member States to establish a permanent stability mechanism. This European Stability Mechanism will assume the tasks currently fulfilled by the European Financial Stability Facility ("EFSF") and the European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism ("EFSM") in providing, where needed, financial assistance to euro area Member States after June 2013.
    (2) On 25 March 2011, the European Council adopted Decision 2011/199/EU amending Article 136 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union with regard to a stability mechanism for Member States whose currency is the euro1 adding the following paragraph to Article 136: "The Member States whose currency is the euro may establish a stability mechanism to be activated if indispensable to safeguard the stability of the euro area as a whole. The granting of any required financial assistance under the mechanism will be made subject to strict conditionality". [...]

    RECALLING the Conclusions of the European Council adopted on 25 March 2011 on the establishment of a European stability mechanism; [...]

    ARTICLE 13
    Procedure for granting financial assistance
    1. An ESM Member may address a request for financial assistance to the Chairperson of the Board of Governors. On receipt of such a request, the Chairperson of the Board of Governors shall entrust the European Commission, in liaison with the ECB, with the following tasks:

    (a) to assess the existence of a risk to the financial stability of the euro area as a whole;
    (b) to undertake - wherever possible, together with the IMF - a rigorous analysis of the debt
    sustainability of the ESM Member concerned;
    (c) to assess the actual financing needs of the ESM Member concerned and the nature of the private sector involvement required, in accordance with Article 12(2).

    3. If a decision pursuant to paragraph 2 is adopted, the Board of Governors shall entrust the European Commission with the task of negotiating with the ESM Member concerned – wherever possible together with the IMF, and in liaison with the ECB – a memorandum of understanding (the "MoU") detailing the economic policy conditionality, contained in a macro-economic adjustment programme and attached to the financial assistance.

    The MoU shall be fully consistent with the measures of economic policy coordination provided for in the TFEU, in particular with any act of European Union law, including any opinion, warning, recommendation or decision addressed to the ESM Member concerned.

    4. The European Commission shall sign the MoU on behalf of the ESM [...]

    7. The European Commission – wherever possible together with the IMF, and in liaison with the ECB – shall be entrusted with monitoring the compliance with the economic policy conditionality attached to the financial assistance.

    ARTICLE 20
    Reserve and other funds
    1. The Board of Governors shall establish a reserve fund and, where appropriate, other funds.
    2. Without prejudice to Article 19, the net income generated by the ESM operations and the proceeds of the financial sanctions received from the ESM Members under the multilateral surveillance procedure, the excessive deficit procedure and the macro-economic imbalances procedure established under the TFEU shall be put aside in a reserve fund.

    ARTICLE 32
    3. If an ESM Member contests the decision referred to in paragraph 2, the dispute shall be submitted to the Court of Justice of the European Union. The judgement of the Court of Justice of the European Union shall be binding on the parties in the procedure, which shall take the necessary measures to comply with the judgment within a period to be decided by said Court.

    ARTICLE 41
    Deposit
    This Treaty shall be deposited with the General Secretariat of the Council of the European Union ("the Depositary"), which shall communicate certified copies of this Treaty to all the signatories.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by He3
    It is a bit of a mongrel really, by design. Look at this selection of treaty references tying it to various EU treaty provisions and institutions -
    Well, it's designed to use the EU's administrative and legal capabilities while avoiding the oversight/transparency/control/redress functions. So it's a pretty carefully designed mongrel.
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

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