Should we allow Turkeys accession to the E.U?

[easygoing]

No - the Turks are not Europeans so I can't see why the European Union should expand beyond Europe.

My big concern would be immigration from Turkey into Europe which to all intents and purposes would be in the eyes of the Capitalists a bottomless pit of cheap Labour. IMO millions of Turks would up camp as it were and move West if and when Turkey joins the EU - in all probabliity hundreds of thousands would arrive here in Ireland within 3/5 years of Accession. And please don't tell me it wouldn't happen - we heard all that before!

At a stretch I would accept their membership if the free movement of people was left out of any Treaty between us and them.

It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.

You are both factually incorrect. You have to define Europe first, and that's near impossible.

The best concept of our continent is that of a 'tidal' Europe, the borders of which ebb and flow.

[Catalpa]

It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.

Free Movement of all Europeans within the Union is essential. Without it there would be an uneven playing field (barrier-to-trade). This would undermine the european free-market.

The issue of their extremist islamic is far more worrying.

The fact that the Turkish Empire had a presence in Europe since the 14th Century onwards does not mean that they are Europeans.

True but there is a massive dispora resulting from this empire. They have also been key in european affairs especially as empirical power.[/quote]

The simple fact of the matter is outside of the Turkish enclave centred on Istamboul there are no significant historical Turkish communities on the Continent of Europe.

[Eirenua]

The question of Turkey entering the EU depends on their willingness to hand the north of Cyprius back to the Cypriots.(Cael, the NI situation is different as both the UK and Ireland are already in the EU). The 1974 invasion was to protect Turkish Cypriots after a military coup. The coup led to fears among the Turkish Cypriot community that the Greek-backed military rulers would ignore their rights and press for unification for Cyprus with Greece or enosis.
The turks held the Northern part of the island until a peace deal was brokered and a buffer zone was held by the UN and still is to this day.Northern Cyprus remains unrecognised by the international community, and the UN continues to protect the buffer zone - or Green line - separating the Greek and Turkish populations. A UN plan put to a referendum on 24 April 2004 to reunite the island was rejected decisively by the Greek Cypriots but accepted by the Turkish Cypriots. EU membership only applies in the Greek sector. So the question of Turkey entering the EU will not happen until they withdraw from Cyprus, of which they have no intention.

[ephenry]

It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.

Free Movement of all Europeans within the Union is essential. Without it there would be an uneven playing field (barrier-to-trade). This would undermine the european free-market.

The issue of their extremist islamic is far more worrying.

The fact that the Turkish Empire had a presence in Europe since the 14th Century onwards does not mean that they are Europeans.

True but there is a massive dispora resulting from this empire. They have also been key in european affairs especially as empirical power.

The simple fact of the matter is outside of the Turkish enclave centred on Istamboul there are no significant historical Turkish communities on the Continent of Europe.

[/quote]

Huge turkish population in germany stemming for post ww2 war immigration. They were known as Gast-arbeiten. They make up roughly 2.6-2.8 million.

[ephenry]

You are both factually incorrect. You have to define Europe first, and that's near impossible.

The best concept of our continent is that of a 'tidal' Europe, the borders of which ebb and flow.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/maps_ ... europe.jpg

[easygoing]

You are both factually incorrect. You have to define Europe first, and that's near impossible.

The best concept of our continent is that of a 'tidal' Europe, the borders of which ebb and flow.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/maps_ ... europe.jpg

A map like that isn't good enough. There is no consensus.

[ephenry]

the european sub continent is a consenus....as you can see everthing that is not beige is europe.

[Xipe Totec]

You are correct. BUT, this only brings up other negitive points. Turks are highly nationalist and a large part of that national self perception is their pride in their former Empire. Much of the Europe they dominated still deeply resents the Turks and unreconstructed Turkish nationalism would only reinfocrce that unease. Actually unease is too bland a word, lets call it what it is, Hatred. The current and re-emerging problems between Kosovo and Serbia have their roots in the Ottoman period, so the Turkish/Slavic emnity is still very much alive while passive nationalism further afield is still informed by past Ottoman oppression.

The problem is that this highly strung brand if Turkish nationalism is what keeps the sanctity of the Secular Turkish state above the radical Islamic politics that mire its other Muslim neighbours. By contrast most of them cannot divide their national self perception from their religeous beliefs. I do not think that moderating Turkey through adding it to the Eu would aid its stability (or ours).

The bits about Turkish nationalism are your opinions and I'm not going to argue with them (though I think they're pretty ignorant), but I can't let erronous history go.

The Balkan conflicts have their roots in the Hapsburg period of domination that followed the receding of the Ottomans.
And to single out the Ottoman empire as being oppressive compared to others is pretty laughable.

[Catalpa]

No - the Turks are not Europeans so I can't see why the European Union should expand beyond Europe.

My big concern would be immigration from Turkey into Europe which to all intents and purposes would be in the eyes of the Capitalists a bottomless pit of cheap Labour. IMO millions of Turks would up camp as it were and move West if and when Turkey joins the EU - in all probabliity hundreds of thousands would arrive here in Ireland within 3/5 years of Accession. And please don't tell me it wouldn't happen - we heard all that before!

At a stretch I would accept their membership if the free movement of people was left out of any Treaty between us and them.

It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.

You are both factually incorrect. You have to define Europe first, and that's near impossible.

The best concept of our continent is that of a 'tidal' Europe, the borders of which ebb and flow.

Europe has pretty clearly defined physical boundaries - and 90% + of Turkey is not within them!

[dsmythy]

All this talk about whether Turkey is European or not could prove pointless in the end.
Will the Turks themselves support entering the EU and should the EU continue to expand at all even to other definete European nations?
Surely we are getting to a point where it is getting too big and could soon implode on itself as a result from bureaucracy and lack of relevance.