Leo Varadkar TD of Fine Gael is going to be very interesting on this question. He is strongly anti-Turkish EU accession, and argues his case very cogently. He has written at least one letter to the Irish Times on this subject. What he is arguing is the traditional FG Christian Democrat position. He will certainly speak on this at length when it comes up in the Dail.
"Got to move to the tricolour beat!" (Sniff 'n' the Tears - "Driver's Seat")
Interesting Times ahead so!Originally Posted by Daonphobal
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
Yes. The next step should be to move beyond a "European" Union and begin admitting countries on the southern half of the Mediterranean.
The Illuminati ...... because payback's a Bit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
h.
No - the Turks are not Europeans so I can't see why the European Union should expand beyond Europe.
My big concern would be immigration from Turkey into Europe which to all intents and purposes would be in the eyes of the Capitalists a bottomless pit of cheap Labour. IMO millions of Turks would up camp as it were and move West if and when Turkey joins the EU - in all probabliity hundreds of thousands would arrive here in Ireland within 3/5 years of Accession. And please don't tell me it wouldn't happen - we heard all that before!
At a stretch I would accept their membership if the free movement of people was left out of any Treaty between us and them.
It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.
Free Movement of all Europeans within the Union is essential. Without it there would be an uneven playing field (barrier-to-trade). This would undermine the european free-market.
The issue of their extremist islamic is far more worrying.
Talent does what it can, Genius does what it must.
There is no guarentee that an Islamic dominated governement would not come to power in Turkey if it were an EU country. The forces in Turkey that keep the radical Islamics in check would be neutralised by EU membership. The secular ideals of Europe and Turkey differ as well as how they are enforced, the presence of the former perhaps being more provocitive to radical islamics and offensive to traditional muslims. Just look at Leeds and Breadford....
Lastly, we already have a bridge to the Muslim world in the form of Bosnia. This conduit has remained almost completely unexploited by the EU. Why? I am not sure. But it does mean that Turkish influence may be unhelpful rather than productive. Ultimitly the Turkish are, well, Turks. Not Arabs, Armerian or Kurds. Turkish membership of the EU might mean a less even handed approach could be taken in dealing with the inter-racial issue that complicate middle eastern politics.
There are very few plus point for Turkey joining the EU. I might add that initially I had been all in favour, but looking at the issues that effect Turkey, I soon changed my mind.
No- that would be stupid - it will only convince more and more Europeans that the Capitalists have well and truly hijacked the European Ideal as a vehicle to be used in a huge Profit generating Enterprise!
Would it not be better for the peoples of Africa to work on their own African Union than to become client States of the Europeans?
All your proposal would do would be to reinforce the Economic Colonialism of Africa.
Africa for the Africans! 8)
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
The fact that the Turkish Empire had a presence in Europe since the 14th Century onwards does not mean that they are Europeans.No - the Turks are not Europeans so I can't see why the European Union should expand beyond Europe.
My big concern would be immigration from Turkey into Europe which to all intents and purposes would be in the eyes of the Capitalists a bottomless pit of cheap Labour. IMO millions of Turks would up camp as it were and move West if and when Turkey joins the EU - in all probabliity hundreds of thousands would arrive here in Ireland within 3/5 years of Accession. And please don't tell me it wouldn't happen - we heard all that before!
At a stretch I would accept their membership if the free movement of people was left out of any Treaty between us and them.
It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.
Free Movement of all Europeans within the Union is essential. Without it there would be an uneven playing field (barrier-to-trade). This would undermine the european free-market.
The issue of their extremist islamic is far more worrying.
Their origins are non European and they never really colonised the parts of Europe they conquered. Even where Turkish Communities developed they were swept away in the aftermath of the Graeco-Turkish War in 1922 when huge population transfers were agreed to by the Turks and the Greeks to establish more etnically defined borders.
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
You are correct. BUT, this only brings up other negitive points. Turks are highly nationalist and a large part of that national self perception is their pride in their former Empire. Much of the Europe they dominated still deeply resents the Turks and unreconstructed Turkish nationalism would only reinfocrce that unease. Actually unease is too bland a word, lets call it what it is, Hatred. The current and re-emerging problems between Kosovo and Serbia have their roots in the Ottoman period, so the Turkish/Slavic emnity is still very much alive while passive nationalism further afield is still informed by past Ottoman oppression.
The problem is that this highly strung brand if Turkish nationalism is what keeps the sanctity of the Secular Turkish state above the radical Islamic politics that mire its other Muslim neighbours. By contrast most of them cannot divide their national self perception from their religeous beliefs. I do not think that moderating Turkey through adding it to the Eu would aid its stability (or ours).
It factually incorrect to say Turks aren't europeans as historically the border of the ottoman empire stretched as far in as Austria. And at the turn of the 20th century 17% of turkey was made up of the european landmass. This has dwindled to 2% (instanbul) however a seventh of the turkish population (10 million or so) do live in this 2%.
Free Movement of all Europeans within the Union is essential. Without it there would be an uneven playing field (barrier-to-trade). This would undermine the european free-market.
The issue of their extremist islamic is far more worrying.[/quote]
True but there is a massive dispora resulting from this empire. They have also been key in european affairs especially as empirical power.The fact that the Turkish Empire had a presence in Europe since the 14th Century onwards does not mean that they are Europeans.
Talent does what it can, Genius does what it must.
You are correct. BUT, this only brings up other negitive points. Turks are highly nationalist and a large part of that national self perception is their pride in their former Empire. Much of the Europe they dominated still deeply resents the Turks and unreconstructed Turkish nationalism would only reinfocrce that unease. Actually unease is too bland a word, lets call it what it is, Hatred. The current and re-emerging problems between Kosovo and Serbia have their roots in the Ottoman period, so the Turkish/Slavic emnity is still very much alive while passive nationalism further afield is still informed by past Ottoman oppression.
The problem is that this highly strung brand if Turkish nationalism is what keeps the sanctity of the Secular Turkish state above the radical Islamic politics that mire its other Muslim neighbours. By contrast most of them cannot divide their national self perception from their religeous beliefs. I do not think that moderating Turkey through adding it to the Eu would aid its stability (or ours).
Yes and the accsession of turkey would mean the army (the most secular wing of turkish establishment) would have its hands tied.
Talent does what it can, Genius does what it must.
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote