How will you vote on the new EU Treaty?

[FutureTaoiseach]

How will you vote if the proposed next EU Treaty comes before the people in a referendum?

The proposals include:

- Automatic fines and the removal of all voting rights in EU institutions for persistant breach of the 3% deficit guidelines. These will be automatic unless 55% of member state governments including over 65% of the EU's population vote to block them.

- the creation of a permanent bailout-fund for member states.

I will most certainly be voting no to such a treacherous contraption because removing all voting rights from a member state would mean taxation without representation. It would mean that Ireland would effectively be governed by the other member states and would have literally no say over EU laws passed for us by them. In short: it would be like the Act of Union if Ireland had no MPs in the House of Commons. It is worse than Vichyism. It comes close to moral treason. The men and women of 1916 would have died for nothing.

The proposal is especially galling given that the EU and the pro-Lisbon political-parties have broken the promise of "Yes to Lisbon - Yes to Jobs". Unemployment has risen substantially since Lisbon. Part of the blame for the recession lies at Brussels' door for imposing open-door immigration between Ireland and the cheap-labour zones of Eastern Europe which resulted in an estimated 15% of housing-demand coming from foreign-nationals. Brian Lenihan has now admitted twice on Newstalk that the abundance of cheap labour was a factor in the housing crash. The pro-cyclical interest rates of 2-5% at a time (1999-2007) of approximately 10% economic growth per annum resulted in reckless borrowing and a housing-bubble of spectacular-proportions. The CSO has stated that the economy has returned to its pre-2003 size. EU Enlargement to Eastern Europe began in 2004 and hence, we have gained nothing from EU Enlargement economically except for 80,000 Accession state nationals on the dole.

In that context, it has become clear to any objective observer that to accede to the Merkel-Sarkozy Pact is the constitutional-equivalent of a battered wife returning constantly to her husband. I speak in metaphorical terms of course. The EU has destroyed the Irish economy with pro-cyclical, Franco-German interest-rates and unsustainable mass-immigration of cheap labour. Of course, it is the policies I am blaming and not the immigrants. But I will not be cowed by the Dublin 4 PC brigade in expressing my opinions. Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.

[eoghanacht]

It doesn't matter how we vote. Have you learned nothing

[FutureTaoiseach]

It doesn't matter how we vote. Have you learned nothing

I have learned we need a backbone in this country.

[vanla sighs]

That would be a NON/NEIN/NO

[Baddaddy]

When is the vote?

[west'sawake]

How will you vote if the proposed next EU Treaty comes before the people in a referendum?

The proposals include:

- Automatic fines and the removal of all voting rights in EU institutions for persistant breach of the 3% deficit guidelines. These will be automatic unless 55% of member state governments including over 65% of the EU's population vote to block them.

- the creation of a permanent bailout-fund for member states.

I will most certainly be voting no to such a treacherous contraption because removing all voting rights from a member state would mean taxation without representation. It would mean that Ireland would effectively be governed by the other member states and would have literally no say over EU laws passed for us by them. In short: it would be like the Act of Union if Ireland had no MPs in the House of Commons. It is worse than Vichyism. It comes close to moral treason. The men and women of 1916 would have died for nothing.

The proposal is especially galling given that the EU and the pro-Lisbon political-parties have broken the promise of "Yes to Lisbon - Yes to Jobs". Unemployment has risen substantially since Lisbon. Part of the blame for the recession lies at Brussels' door for imposing open-door immigration between Ireland and the cheap-labour zones of Eastern Europe which resulted in an estimated 15% of housing-demand coming from foreign-nationals. Brian Lenihan has now admitted twice on Newstalk that the abundance of cheap labour was a factor in the housing crash. The pro-cyclical interest rates of 2-5% at a time (1999-2007) of approximately 10% economic growth per annum resulted in reckless borrowing and a housing-bubble of spectacular-proportions. The CSO has stated that the economy has returned to its pre-2003 size. EU Enlargement to Eastern Europe began in 2004 and hence, we have gained nothing from EU Enlargement economically except for 80,000 Accession state nationals on the dole.

In that context, it has become clear to any objective observer that to accede to the Merkel-Sarkozy Pact is the constitutional-equivalent of a battered wife returning constantly to her husband. I speak in metaphorical terms of course. The EU has destroyed the Irish economy with pro-cyclical, Franco-German interest-rates and unsustainable mass-immigration of cheap labour. Of course, it is the policies I am blaming and not the immigrants. But I will not be cowed by the Dublin 4 PC brigade in expressing my opinions. Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.

Great post, but I think the immigrants are as much victims as ourselves.

[eoghanacht]

I have learned we need a backbone in this country.

Your a slow learner

[TommyO'Brien]

How will you vote if the proposed next EU Treaty comes before the people in a referendum?

The proposals include:

. . .

So after years of spoofing about how Lisbon was supposedly self-amending, you finally admit that it isn't and there would still have to be a referendum.

Well that is progress.

BTW there is no new treaty. Two leaders want one. Most of the rest of Europe is likely to suggest they stick the proposed treaty where the sun don't shine.

[FutureTaoiseach]

So after years of spoofing about how Lisbon was supposedly self-amending, you finally admit that it isn't and there would still have to be a referendum.

Well that is progress.

No I didn't. The elites may decide to hold one but since Lisbon it is not required (especially given the new "commitment to the European Union" in Article 29 of the Irish Constitution). Experience in other member states is that such language effectively constitutes a blank cheque.

BTW there is no new treaty. Two leaders want one. Most of the rest of Europe is likely to suggest they stick the proposed treaty where the sun don't shine.

Well the IT say its all but inevitable.

So TOB, how would you vote?

[kerdasi amaq]

If they can avoid holding a referendum; they surely will. So as not to give me another chance to vote NO.