EU set to hammer a nail into the coffin of free speech

[easygoing]

http://euobserver.com/9/23885

We will all have to watch our Ps and Qs when this thing comes in. I believe the law will impinge on academic enquiry and will restrict freedom for manouvre in debate.

It's things like this that are rapidly putting me off the European project.

[Miriam Cotton]

The same rules would also apply to people "publicly condoning, denying, or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes" as defined by international crime courts.

Blair and Bush must be a bit worried, then.

[Twin Towers]

Yes and only includes denial of certain holocausts, politically correct holocausts

[qtman]

http://euobserver.com/9/23885

We will all have to watch our Ps and Qs when this thing comes in. I believe the law will impinge on academic enquiry and will restrict freedom for manouvre in debate.

It's things like this that are rapidly putting me off the European project.

The proposal relates to incitement to hatred and holocaust/genocide denial.

In what way is free speech "in a coffin" in the EU?

[easygoing]

http://euobserver.com/9/23885

We will all have to watch our Ps and Qs when this thing comes in. I believe the law will impinge on academic enquiry and will restrict freedom for manouvre in debate.

It's things like this that are rapidly putting me off the European project.

The proposal relates to incitement to hatred and holocaust/genocide denial.

In what way is free speech "in a coffin" in the EU?

Incitement to hatred? Load of balls. How can anyone actually prove somebody was 'incited' to 'hate'? People are responsible for their own actions.

[Catalpa]

I wonder where our politicians will be if and when this is past?

Will those wonderful professors and lecturers of our institutes of higher learning + assorted 'Human Rights' activists (eg M.D. Higgins) send letters of protest into the National Newspapers over this proposed curtailment of Free Speech?

Fat chance!


BTW if this becomes Law then I take it that we will no longer be able to discus online here on Politics.ie whether there ever was a Holocaust or not...

[gaelach]

http://euobserver.com/9/23885

We will all have to watch our Ps and Qs when this thing comes in. I believe the law will impinge on academic enquiry and will restrict freedom for manouvre in debate.

It's things like this that are rapidly putting me off the European project.

The proposal relates to incitement to hatred and holocaust/genocide denial.

In what way is free speech "in a coffin" in the EU?

Incitement to hatred? Load of balls. How can anyone actually prove somebody was 'incited' to 'hate'? People are responsible for their own actions.

Eh..but don`t we already have our own "incitment to hatred act"?

[Catalpa]

However MrMcDowell did address this to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights on Tuesday, 11 March 2003:


The Irish position regarding the framework decision which is causing us some difficulty is that some member states wish to have a new category of offences, unknown to Irish law, which would deny, minimise or trivialise historic events in a manner likely to cause insult to other people. For instance, denial of the Holocaust, or whatever, would be an offence in certain circumstances. That is currently the position in Europe. In the common law tradition, however, Holocaust denial is not an offence, per se. For example, Dr. David Irving has published books expressing his view that the Holocaust never took place but is a figment of Western imaginations. Our position is that, generally speaking, freedom of speech allows people to have views which the great majority would regard as wrong and untrue. On matters of history, our system has never treated it as a crime to make a statement of fact, however mistaken that statement may be. We have put forward a clause for inclusion in the text of the framework decision stating that it does not require member states to criminalise behaviour which amounts to freedom of expression or freedom of the press. Some other constitutional grounds are also to be included. We will be in a position to accept the framework decision with that in it but to make a decision in our own case in favour of freedom of expression.

http://www.irlgov.ie/oireachtas/Committ ... 110303.rtf

I hope he keeps his word tomorrow on defending our right to express ourselves freely here?

[zacchy]

And hopefully he repeals the Incitement to Hatred Act.

[easygoing]

I wonder where our politicians will be if and when this is past?

Will those wonderful professors and lecturers of our institutes of higher learning + assorted 'Human Rights' activists (eg M.D. Higgins) send letters of protest into the National Newspapers over this proposed curtailment of Free Speech?

Fat chance!

I would suspect u are correct, Catalpa. The strange thing is that those most favourably disposed towards laws of this nature are often the same ones with the cheek to call themselves 'progressive' and / or 'liberal'.

BTW if this becomes Law then I take it that we will no longer be able to discus online here on Politics.ie whether there ever was a Holocaust or not...

A fair point, and I'm amazed more people on this site have not responded to this thread.