Italy proposes gag law on bloggers, FB posts; Brussels silent (again)

[SilverSpurs]

There's the thing, though - there's this thing called the "internal market", right (used to be the Common Market)? And this other thing called the euro. And there's this thing called a customs union, too.

All of that together means that the economic affairs of the EU countries are so entangled that they essentially run them co-operatively. The EU's role in that is to act as referee. Where the EU countries haven't agreed to any joint rules, the EU has no role - as in this case. The EU isn't some kind of separate entity with a liberal agenda - it's part of the machinery of co-operation, its agenda is to enforce the rules that the countries have agreed amongst themselves, and it has only the powers required to do so.

Just as in football, the referee gets criticised by those on the sidelines all the time, but their job is only to ensure that the countries operate by the rules they've all agreed on. The referee may not approve of the players' lifestyles or hairstyles, but he has no right to comment on them.

The part you are leaving out is that for the most part the rules are made by QMV which allows the member to be forced to do something they dont want to do. This essentially creates a superior entity to the member. Also the EU has powerful institutions that can act against the wishes of a member state. It also gets to interpret and apply the agreed rules quite possible in a way that a member state did not intend. Europhiles and their selective facts!

[SilverSpurs]

Some people think that the EU can make law in any area. That's rubbish. The EU can only make law in areas where it has the competence (legal jargon for power) to do so.

All other areas remain the responsibility of the member states:

Looks suspiciously like the 10th amendment to the US constitution which completely failed to rein in federalism.

[pujols]

Government facing collapse over Berlusconi party feud - Europe, World News - Independent.ie

Maybe it will be moot. An election might put manners on Silvio...

[DSPIUSED2B]

It would get quite expensive for the Irish state, and the state bosdies if that was made law in Ireland.
I mean imagine DAA, T2 shall cost €100m, oh sorry, make that €4bn
Lenihan, nationalising Anglo shall only cost......
2010 budget......

[ibis]

The part you are leaving out is that for the most part the rules are made by QMV which allows the member to be forced to do something they dont want to do. This essentially creates a superior entity to the member. Also the EU has powerful institutions that can act against the wishes of a member state. It also gets to interpret and apply the agreed rules quite possible in a way that a member state did not intend. Europhiles and their selective facts!

That doesn't change what I've said even slightly, and it doesn't create a "superior entity" - that's bollox, like claiming that a committee is a "superior entity" to its members, even though the members of the committee decide everything. A case of "europhobes and their selective stupidity", really, because there are some very basic, very important facts here you've had to ignore in favour of a bit of mildly paranoid fantasy.

EU legislation is passed by the Council. The Council consists of the Member States. The Member States co-operate to the degree they decide to by the Treaties they agree on, and choose the voting methods they'll use themselves. Nobody forces the Member States to use QMV - they decide to do it themselves, write that in the co-operation agreement (that's what the EU treaties are), including any exemptions they feel necessary. If any country feels that QMV isn't working out better than unanimity, they make that a point in the next Treaty, and out it goes. There is no "superior entity" that makes them do something else - there is only the bargaining between the Member States, who remain, in the words of the German Constitutional Court judgement on Lisbon, the "masters of the Treaties".

So, you're welcome to argue about the degree of autonomy that the Commission has, or the Parliament, the extent of the influence of a single Member State, whether a European level is really the right level for some decisions, or the difficulties of withdrawing from co-operation when it's mildly irksome but not actually damaging - but putting forth addled moonshine like your claims above just flies directly in the face of the facts. Worse, it distracts from the more important question of how to control one's national government in Europe - and that's a major question in Ireland - because if we can't control our national government, then whether decisions are made at the European level or nationally makes not a blind bit of difference to our input as citizens.

[Riadach]

Stop the presses, Al calls for the expansion of Eu competences, and the reduction of the rights of individual states to make their own laws.

[ibis]

Sorry but you're delusion. To compare the EU to a referree in sport is comical. Perhaps maybe a referre that has his hands around the bollocks of all the particpants.

Probably it looks like the referee is in charge to people who don't understand the game. Most of our eurosceptics have proven time and again that they don't, or are at least unable to distinguish between the referee enforcing the rules the players have agreed to and the referee making the rules. You appear to be in the latter category.

[ibis]

Sorry but you're delusion. To compare the EU to a referree in sport is comical. Perhaps maybe a referre that has his hands around the bollocks of all the particpants.

Probably it looks like the referee is in charge to people who don't understand the game. Most of our eurosceptics have proven time and again that they don't, or are at least unable to distinguish between the referee enforcing the rules the players have agreed to and the referee making the rules. You appear to be in the latter category.

Hm. Shortly after claiming that I'm "delusion" (sic), it seems BareBear has mysteriously vanished. Worrying.

[dotski_w_]

Hm. Shortly after claiming that I'm "delusion" (sic), it seems BareBear has mysteriously vanished. Worrying.

He knew too much. We had to 'silence' him.

Actually it was easier than you'd think. I just put him in a room with a pile of UFO magazines and a box of hankies.

[ibis]

He knew too much. We had to 'silence' him.

Actually it was easier than you'd think. I just put him in a room with a pile of UFO magazines and a box of hankies.

Eew.