“Ireland for Europe - an Anti-democratic agenda?

[kerdasi amaq]

“Experience with referenda on European treaties is that the campaign becomes a contest between the extremes and the centre,” said Mr Halligan, who added that the centre was notoriously difficult to motivate and then mobilise.[/I]

or between those who see through the lies that the EU is founded upon and those who have a vested interest in taking those lies at face value.

The center that thinks it should automatically win, and then has a hissy fit when it loses. The center that resorts to every dirty, dishonest trick that it can to win: even to possibly rigging the vote. Worst of all; it won't even acknowledge that the opponents of its Treaty have any legitimate concerns.

[hiding behind a poster]

It's a moot point anyway because Lisbon pretty much gave away the right to vote on any future changes to the "consitution" of the Federal States of Europe.

No, it didn't. Please try and inform yourself on the subject.

[edifice.]

If they were so concerned with too many referranda why didn't they make these arguments when Lisbon was defeated?

[FutureTaoiseach]

This vindicates what the "No" camp warned about during the campaigns. What Edmund Burke called "the swinish multitude" are to be kept in check by the "men of property" so we won't be naughty and get ideas above our station.

Laffan is right on this bit though:

Prof Laffan warned against any further treaty reform for some time to come. “The EU must now work with the treaties and institutions that it already has for at least 15 years, as both the domestic systems and Europe’s electorates cannot cope with further treaty change.“The EU must turn to doing business rather than debating how it should do its business,” she said.

Very true. Resist the Franco-German push to turn the debate on the EMF into a Trojan Horse for yet another Federalist Treaty.

[Disillusioned democrat]

No, it didn't. Please try and inform yourself on the subject.

I think you'll find it did - does the term "self amending treaty" ring a bell?

[kerdasi amaq]

Mr Cox said Ireland had to raise its game if it was to compete in the 21st-century global economy, and said the country had much to learn from our EU neighbours.

What a joke! We're like Arkle; carrying top weight, but not nearly as good as him! These people are handicapping the country's economy as much as they can; and then say we've got to compete.

[TommyO'Brien]

It's a moot point anyway because Lisbon pretty much gave away the right to vote on any future changes to the "consitution" of the Federal States of Europe.

Totally and utterly untrue.

But hey, the No nuts trotted out that total lie so often, why not trot it out again. And again. And again.

The fact is that the rules on amending treaties remains totally unchanged. All issues that required referenda under Crotty before Lisbon require referenda after Lisbon. Not one iota of a change has been made to Crotty as every lawyer knows - even those who spun the yarn that Crotty was being changed would laugh about it off-the-record and think it was great gas to tell a whopper like that, and watch gullible No voters fall for it.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Totally and utterly untrue.

But hey, the No nuts trotted out that total lie so often, why not trot it out again. And again. And again.

The fact is that the rules on amending treaties remains totally unchanged. All issues that required referenda under Crotty before Lisbon require referenda after Lisbon. Not one iota of a change has been made to Crotty as every lawyer knows - even those who spun the yarn that Crotty was being changed would laugh about it off-the-record and think it was great gas to tell a whopper like that, and watch gullible No voters fall for it.

Given how the McKenna and Coughlan judgements were discarded during the campaign with respect to equal-airtime, it hardly gives grounds for confidence with respect to the durability of the Crotty Judgement.

Not since 1800 have a ruling Irish elite been so committed to the surrender of Irish sovereignty.

[The_Big_Fellow]

It seems we still have not been forgiven for giving the 'wrong' answer in Lisbon I.

Clearly the thoughts of the Irish People having any further opportunity to exercise their democratic rights through the ballot box on European Affairs is all too much for some.

KEY FIGURES involved in the campaign that led to a Yes vote in the second Lisbon Treaty referendum have cautioned against another referendum on an EU treaty for a long time to come.

Brendan Halligan the campaign’s co-ordinator, argued that the time had come to rethink the holding of repeated referendums in this country.

“Ireland has become a referendum country by accident. This is no way to run our national affairs, especially on the one issue that affects us most, membership of the European Union,” he wrote. “Experience with referenda on European treaties is that the campaign becomes a contest between the extremes and the centre,” said Mr Halligan, who added that the centre was notoriously difficult to motivate and then mobilise.

Lisbon 'Yes' group warns against further EU treaties - The Irish Times - Wed, Mar 17, 2010

To me anyway this mindset is fundamentally Undemocratic

- but hardly surprising given the source.

It is the same arrogance as Willie O'Dea and O'Donoughue exhibited. Our "betters" have decided what shall be done, and we can't let auld paddy get in the way.

Fundamentally undemocratic is an understatement.

[TommyO'Brien]

Given how the McKenna and Coughlan judgements were discarded during the campaign with respect to equal-airtime, it hardly gives grounds for confidence with respect to the durability of the Crotty Judgement.

Not since 1800 have a ruling Irish elite been so committed to the surrender of Irish sovereignty.

Still trotting those lies. Is there anything you don't lie about???