Was the Suez Crisis the real reason for the European Project

[SilverSpurs]

We have been fed the myth that a desire to avert war in Europe inspired the european project. This however offers an alternative theory. Suez ended the power of the old European empires. Only together could they dream of throwing their weight around on the world stage. Was the current EU conceived after the humiliation of Britain and France.

Suez Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[sondagefaux]

That might be slightly plausible if the British hadn't been opposed to the creation of the European Communities and hadn't set up the European Free Trade Area as a rival (ultimately unsuccessful).

[toughbutfair]

That might be slightly plausible if the British hadn't been opposed to the creation of the European Communities and hadn't set up the European Free Trade Area as a rival (ultimately unsuccessful).

Quickest ever checkmate on a thread?

[SilverSpurs]

The british empire was much less damaged than the French empire and lasted until the end of the 60's which is the time they got their application for EEC membership in. The founders of the were the empires that died around the time of Suez (France, Belgium, Holland, Italy).

[odie1kanobe]

No

As France had already suffered at Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam.

The European project was to avoid a future war.

[SilverSpurs]

No

As France had already suffered at Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam.

The European project was to avoid a future war.

The original ECSC was all that was required to avoid war.

[Sync]

Conceived by whom? The French were being humiliated in wars for 100 years prior the EU, and as stated the English were originally opposed to the idea.

Why do you think the British empire reached it's nadir in the 1960s? Specifically? Why not the 50s or 70s? Or is it simply because that decade suits your latest ill-thought out crackpot theory?

[euryalus]

I don't understand the supposed link. The French (who never forgave the British for not losing to the Germans in World War II) simply did not want the United Kingdom in what was then called the Common Market, so it is absurd to suggest that, "only together" could the French and the British "throw their weight around" on the world stage.

[sondagefaux]

The proposal for the European Coal and Steel Community (which eventually became the EEC and then the EU) was first outlined in 1950 by Robert Schuman.

The British were opposed to it because they were opposed to the idea of a supranational authority and pooled soveriegnty.

They eventually settled for an association with the ECSC rather than full membership.

They later sponsored the foundation of the European Free Trade Area as a rival to the European Communities.

However, they changed their mind once they saw that the relative economic growth of the countries that were members of the European Communities was stronger than their economic growth.

De Gaulle was opposed to British membership because he reckoned the British were too Atlanticist, were too nostalgic for their empire and would hinder further integration.

If his successors had adopted the same attitudes the UK's membership would have been stalled for who knows how long.

Obviously the British needed guaranteed access to alternative markets as their former colonies gained independence.

They tried to gain access to those markets through the European Free Trade Area but found that the alternative, the EEC, was ultimately more attractive to most members of the EFTA, including themselves.

Imperial decline played a part in Britain's decision to apply for membership of the EEC but that doesn't mean it was the primary motivation for its foundation.

The primary motivations for its foundation are set out in the Schuman Declaration.

“World peace cannot be safeguarded without the making of creative efforts proportionate to the dangers which threaten it. The contribution which an organized and living Europe can bring to civilization is indispensable to the maintenance of peaceful relations. In taking upon herself for more than 20 years the rôle of champion of a united Europe, France has always had as her essential aim the service of peace. A united Europe was not achieved and we had war.

Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity. The rassemblement of the nations of Europe requires the elimination of the age-old opposition of France and Germany. Any action taken must in the first place concern these two countries.

With this aim in view, the French Government proposes to take action immediately on one limited but decisive point. It proposes to place Franco-German production of coal and steel as a whole under a common higher authority, within the framework of an organisation open to the participation of the other countries of Europe. The pooling of coal and steel production should immediately provide for the setting up of common foundations for economic development as a first step in the federation of Europe, and will change the destinies of those regions which have long been devoted to the manufacture of munitions of war, of which they have been the most constant victims.

The solidarity in production thus established will make it plain that any war between France and Germany becomes not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible. The setting-up of this powerful productive unit, open to all countries willing to take part and bound ultimately to provide all the member countries with the basic elements of industrial production on the same terms, will lay a true foundation for their economic unification. This production will be offered to the world as a whole without distinction or exception, with the aim of contributing to raising living standards and to promoting peaceful achievements. Europe, with new means at her disposal, will be able to pursue the realisation of one of her essential tasks: the development of the African Continent.

In this way there will be realised simply and speedily that fusion of interests which is indispensable to the establishment of a common economic system; it may be the leaven from which may grow a wider and deeper community between countries long opposed to one another by sanguinary divisions. By pooling basic production and by instituting a new higher authority, whose decisions will bind France, Germany, and other member countries, this proposal will lead to the realisation of the first concrete foundation of a European federation indispensable to the preservation of peace.

To promote the realisation of the objectives defined, the French Government is ready to open negotiations on the following bases:

(1) that the task with which this common higher authority will be charged will be that of securing in the shortest possible time the modernization of production and the improvement of its quality;

(2) the supply of coal and steel on identical terms to the French and German markets, as well as to the markets of other member countries;

(3) the development in common of exports to other countries;

(4) the equalization and improvement of the living conditions of workers in these industries.

To achieve these objectives, starting from the very different conditions in which the productions of member countries are at present situated, it is proposed that certain transitional measures should be instituted, such as the application of a production and investment plan, the establishment of compensating machinery for equating prices, and the creation of an amortization fund (fonds de réconversion) to facilitate the rationalization of production. The movement of coal and steel between member countries will immediately be freed from all Customs duty, and will not be affected by differential transport rates. Conditions will gradually be created which will spontaneously provide for the more rational distribution of production at the highest level of productivity. In contrast to international cartels, which tend to impose restrictive practices on distribution and the exploitation of national markets, and to maintain high profits, the organization will ensure the fusion of markets and the expansion of production.

The essential principles and undertakings defined above will be the subject of treaties signed between the States and submitted for the ratification of their Parliaments. The negotiations required to settle details of their application will be undertaken with the help of an arbitrator appointed by common agreement. He will be entrusted with the task of seeing that the agreements reached conform with the principles laid down, and, in the event of a deadlock, he will decide what solution is to be adopted.

The common higher authority entrusted with the management of the scheme will be composed of independent persons appointed by the Governments on an equal basis (sur une base paritaire).

A chairman will be chosen by common agreement between the Governments. The authority’s decisions will have executive force in France, Germany, and other member countries. Appropriate measures will be provided for means of appeal against the decisions of the authority.

A representative of the United Nations will be accredited to the authority, and will be instructed to make a public report to the United Nations twice yearly, giving an account of the working of the new organisation, particularly as concerns the safeguarding of its specific objects.

The institution of the higher authority will in no way prejudge the methods of ownership of enterprises. In the exercise of its functions the common higher authority will take into account the powers conferred upon the International Ruhr Authority and the obligations of all kinds imposed upon Germany, so long as these remain in force.”

[ibis]

The british empire was much less damaged than the French empire and lasted until the end of the 60's which is the time they got their application for EEC membership in. The founders of the were the empires that died around the time of Suez (France, Belgium, Holland, Italy).

The French still have an informal empire in Africa. Have you never heard of the "colonial franc"?

Have a read.