EU Army

[Grumpy Jack]

[quote=The Field Marshal;2441249]

Yes.
They used to keep 3 fighter jets.

Where they are I do not know.

The last time the Air Corps had 'fighter jets' was in the 1960s, a couple of early 1950s vintage De Havilland Vampires. One of these is now in the National Museum at Collins Barracks in Dublin.

From the mid-1970s, the AC flew six second-hand Fouga Magister jet trainers, again 1950s vintage aircraft. These were used for training pilots and the Silver Swallows aerobatic display team. Fighters they were not.

These were retired in 1998 and replaced by eight PC-9M prop trainers which can carry rocket and machinegun pods.

The Air Corps has no air combat capability, apart from the PC-9Ms loosing off a few light rockets and machinegun rounds at ground targets.

A simple check on Defence Forces Homepage or wikipedia would have shown that.

Ireland has little or nothing to offer any 'EU Army' bar bomb disposal experts, the Army Ranger Wing special forces and a battalion of mechanised infantry for peacekeeping duties.

There is no real offensive military capability in the Defence Forces and no war-fighting capability. We have no tanks, no heavy armour fighting vechicles, no attack helicopters and no fighter/ground attack aircraft.

Again, a simple check on the DF website or wiki would have shown that.

[SilverSpurs]

[quote=Grumpy Jack;2441455]

The last time the Air Corps had 'fighter jets' was in the 1960s, a couple of early 1950s vintage De Havilland Vampires. One of these is now in the National Museum at Collins Barracks in Dublin.

From the mid-1970s, the AC flew six second-hand Fouga Magister jet trainers, again 1950s vintage aircraft. These were used for training pilots and the Silver Swallows aerobatic display team. Fighters they were not.

These were retired in 1998 and replaced by eight PC-9M prop trainers which can carry rocket and machinegun pods.

The Air Corps has no air combat capability, apart from the PC-9Ms loosing off a few light rockets and machinegun rounds at ground targets.

A simple check on Defence Forces Homepage or wikipedia would have shown that.

Ireland has little or nothing to offer any 'EU Army' bar bomb disposal experts, the Army Ranger Wing special forces and a battalion of mechanised infantry for peacekeeping duties.

There is no real offensive military capability in the Defence Forces and no war-fighting capability. We have no tanks, no heavy armour fighting vechicles, no attack helicopters and no fighter/ground attack aircraft.

Again, a simple check on the DF website or wiki would have shown that.

You forget our legal obligation to progressively improve our miliary capability.

[SilverSpurs]

But but the legal guarantees said Lisbon didnt create an EU army what on earth is the German foreign minister on about?

[The Field Marshal]

[quote=SilverSpurs;2441675]

You forget our legal obligation to progressively improve our miliary capability.

Legal Obligation.?

Who or what is Legally obliging us to to this?

if such a thing exists who will punish us for failing to do so?

Id love to know.

[Grumpy Jack]

[quote=SilverSpurs;2441675]

You forget our legal obligation to progressively improve our miliary capability.

We're skint. We will not be spending money to "progressively improve our military capability" for a long time to come.

Just watch the outcry if the government approves €100m order this year for two naval patrol vessels to replace the oldest ships in fleet - never mind another €100m for the planned larger vessel that Enda thought was our hospital ship. That's gone on the long finger, BTW.

Part of the reason Greece is in the mess it is in is because it has a significant defence budget and spending on the military there has been untouchable for decades because they are playing Big Swinging Mickeys with Turkey.

We will not be going down that route. Anyone who thinks we will is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Earnest]

[list=a][*]Forgot what Article 222 says, so quickly? "The Union shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal"? So unless "some blankets and a couple of Gardaí" are all that Ireland has in the whole country, there are going to be a lot more being called upon from Ireland, especially per Article 42 Section 3 ("Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union etc."...no limit stated).

Your dot-dot-dot is important, because it shows your selectivity. The sentence is:

Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council.

There is no common and security policy as yet to be implemented. And when there is, because there is no upper limit there is as well no lower limit. And if Ireland has not placed its army at the disposal of the EU, the EU can't mobilise it.

[*]Article 222 says nothing about NATO commitments. It says "The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity et cetera", and nothing about "as sovereign states". Furthermore, the "legal basis" for an EU army is already in Article 42.

On this one, you don't even give a quote because you can't.

[The Fusilier]

Amazing that the Field Marshal spammed threads with nautical references to Enda Kenny after the issue with the hospital ship, and he then goes and declares himself that the Air Corps are in possession of fighter jets.

Well, Air Marshall, were you badly informed by advisers? Do you feel your position as a poster on this forum is untenable?

[The Field Marshal]

Amazing that the Field Marshal spammed threads with nautical references to Enda Kenny after the issue with the hospital ship, and he then goes and declares himself that the Air Corps are in possession of fighter jets.

Well, Air Marshall, were you badly informed by advisers? Do you feel your position as a poster on this forum is untenable?

Ya just want te get yer gurrier kick in.Dya feel better now?

The jets owned by the air corps [the Fouga] are fighter jets.

Irish troops were attacked by such a jet in the Battle of Jadoville

They could carry bombs and be fitted with machine guns.

As a common Fusilier you should have basic knowledge of military matters.

You clearly dont.

Do a George Lee immediately.

[Grumpy Jack]

Ya just want te get yer gurrier kick in.Dya feel better now?

The jets owned by the air corps [the Fouga] are fighter jets.

Irish troops were attacked by such a jet in the Battle of Jadoville

They could carry bombs and be fitted with machine guns.

As a common Fusilier you should have basic knowledge of military matters.

You clearly dont.

Do a George Lee immediately.

The Magisters were trainers which could carry light armament. They were not fighter jets. They lacked radar, cannon and air-to-air missiles so would have been feck all use as fighters.

Anyway, it is irrelevant. They were retired in 1998 and replaced by the PC-9Ms which are prop trainers. The Irish Air Corps does not possess 'fighter jets'. And it is safe to say they won't be getting any the foreseeable future.

[The Field Marshal]

The Magisters were trainers which could carry light armament. They were not fighter jets. They lacked radar, cannon and air-to-air missiles so would have been feck all use as fighters.

Anyway, it is irrelevant. They were retired in 1998 and replaced by the PC-9Ms which are prop trainers. The Irish Air Corps does not possess 'fighter jets'. And it is safe to say they won't be getting any the foreseeable future.

The de Havilland DH.100 Vampire was a British jet-engine fighter.

The Irish air corps possessed at least two and possibly three of these

de Havilland Vampire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia