EU Army

[jcdf]

There will be no EU army unless one of Europe's neighbors gives us a reason to put one together. I do not think that will happen. This is all just talk, much of Brussels and other European capitals are still dominated by the Cold War generation. Their beliefs and actions grow out of that time, like many still in the Pentagon they think it is still the Cold War or some slight variation on it. This generation like all generations is aging and at some point in the future they and their nonsense will be committed to the retirement homes.

[st333ve]

There will be no EU army unless one of Europe's neighbors gives us a reason to put one together. I do not think that will happen.

Under the Lisbon treaty, if a European country is attacked then all member states are required to defend it.

What if Britain attacked Iran and Iran retaliated?

Ireland would become an enemy of Iran by default.

Dont underestimate the ability of an EU country sparking a war, something which would quickly help to create an EU army.

[vid]

The EU army will happen but what if we opt out, will the economy collapse because we wont be at the heart of europe? Will foreign investment dry up because we are not part of the project. Will some media outlets explode in outrage? Bring it on.

[ibis]

Under the Lisbon treaty, if a European country is attacked then all member states are required to defend it.

What if Britain attacked Iran and Iran retaliated?

Ireland would become an enemy of Iran by default.

Dont underestimate the ability of an EU country sparking a war, something which would quickly help to create an EU army.

Except that (a) your initial premise remains incorrect. If someone attacks another EU country, we are not obliged to defend it - we are not obliged to do anything more than send some blankets or a couple of Gardai.

Nor (b) would such an attack create an EU army, because it provides no legal basis to do so. Those member states that decided to respond to the attack would do so as sovereign countries - and in virtually every rationally conceivable case, would do so because of their NATO commitments. In the case you have suggested, the mutual defence provisions of NATO would kick in. If you want to create a situation where the EU solidarity clause is more important, you need a non-NATO EU country - that's us, Cyprus, Austria, Sweden, and Finland.

Finally (c) if the UK attacked Iran, and Iran retaliated, then the UK would not be suffering armed aggression. Iran would be suffering armed aggression from the UK.

[chadmikeymicheals]

what happened to the old thread about this issue? there were thousands of post in it.
has it been deleted?

[kerdasi amaq]

All you need is a major crisis and every thing changes. However, if the EU introduces conscription, expect all our good European yes-men yessies to be in favour of it. They'll trot out all their lies, how Europe has good for us, how we have to send a signal that we're committed Europeans and we must keep our influence in the heart of Europe by fighting a war against nations that we Irish have no quarrel with.

The basic rule in life is: paddle your own canoe, because if you won't, no one else will!

No. !)))

[He3]

what happened to the old thread about this issue? there were thousands of post in it.
has it been deleted?

You mean this one?

http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty...ence-pact.html

It is in the ghost of Lisbon forum. For some reason once the treaty was adopted the forum on it was closed. The threads are still in an archive but cannot be brought back to life afaik.

[The Field Marshal]

[quote=louis bernard;2440589]

Sondagefaux


The Air Corps do have fighter jets.


They have fighter jets? Am I missing something? All I see them with are propeller driven WW2 types. Are they hiding the jets somewhere?

Yes.
They used to keep 3 fighter jets.

Where they are I do not know.

[Al.]

Except that (a) your initial premise remains incorrect. If someone attacks another EU country, we are not obliged to defend it - we are not obliged to do anything more than send some blankets or a couple of Gardai.

Nor (b) would such an attack create an EU army, because it provides no legal basis to do so. Those member states that decided to respond to the attack would do so as sovereign countries - and in virtually every rationally conceivable case, would do so because of their NATO commitments. In the case you have suggested, the mutual defence provisions of NATO would kick in. If you want to create a situation where the EU solidarity clause is more important, you need a non-NATO EU country - that's us, Cyprus, Austria, Sweden, and Finland.

Finally (c) if the UK attacked Iran, and Iran retaliated, then the UK would not be suffering armed aggression. Iran would be suffering armed aggression from the UK.

1. Forgot what Article 222 says, so quickly? "The Union shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal"? So unless "some blankets and a couple of Gardaí" are all that Ireland has in the whole country, there are going to be a lot more being called upon from Ireland, especially per Article 42 Section 3 ("Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union etc."...no limit stated).
2. Article 222 says nothing about NATO commitments. It says "The Union and its Member States shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity et cetera", and nothing about "as sovereign states". Furthermore, the "legal basis" for an EU army is already in Article 42.
3. Why presume the UK anyway? Germany wouldn't start a conflict with Iran? because they are utterly at loggerheads with them right now.

If Westerwelle, who is one of Germany's doves, is calling for a EU military (and not a hawk like Reichsfreiherr zu Guttenberg), that ought to be a very clear sign as to the direction of this policy, never mind the direction of the Union.

[skev]

Under the Lisbon treaty, if a European country is attacked then all member states are required to defend it.

What if Britain attacked Iran and Iran retaliated?

Ireland would become an enemy of Iran by default.

Dont underestimate the ability of an EU country sparking a war, something which would quickly help to create an EU army.

Iran and Britain went to war I would hope we were on the side of the Brits.

I'd prefer to see them attack Saudi Arabia though.