EU Army

[sondagefaux]

The Irish Defence Forces.

The Army consists of 8,500 personnel, divided into three brigades.

Today approximately 8,500 men and women serve in the Army. The country is divided into three areas for administrative and operational reasons, and in each area there is an infantry Brigade. The three brigade group structure envisages distinct operational areas of responsibility for each of the brigades.

Defence Forces - Army Homepage

A list of the weapons and equipment the Army has.

Defence Forces - Army Weapons

Defence Forces - Army Vehicles

Defence Forces - Army Equipment

The Air Corps.

The Air Corps is the air component of the Permanent Defence Forces, based at Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel, Co. Dublin. Today, approximately 850 men and women serve in the Air Corps, each making a unique and significant contribution to fulfilling the roles, both primary and secondary as assigned by government.

Defence Forces - Air Corps - Introduction

The aircraft the Air Corps has. Note the complete lack of fighters and bombers.

Defence Forces - Air Corps

The Irish Naval Service.

The Naval Service is based on Haulbowline Island. It has an authorised maximum strength of 1,144 personnel and comprises a flotilla of eight ships.

Defence Forces - Naval Service

Its flotilla.

Defence Forces - Naval Service - Flotilla

Why would anyone, let alone some sort of evil empire bent on world domination, want to incorporate such a tiny force?

The men and women who serve in our Defence Forces do a great job but they are very few in number and have feck all of the weapons and equipment required to participate in any kind of serious offensive military operation.

[evercloserunion]

The EU is just another way for the Germans to realise their ambition of conquering Europe! Just as the Daily Mail has told me for years!!!!!!

They'll have a hard time competing with those Muslim immigrants who also want to take us over according to the Daily Mail.

[st333ve]

[/url]

Why would anyone, let alone some sort of evil empire bent on world domination, want to incorporate such a tiny force?

The men and women who serve in our Defence Forces do a great job but they are very few in number and have feck all of the weapons and equipment required to participate in any kind of serious offensive military operation.

An EU army could still get a good few thousand troops.
That's a lot, Germany only has a few thousand troops in Afghanistan.

[The Field Marshal]

Sondagefaux

Defence Forces - Naval Service - Flotilla[/url]

Why would anyone, let alone some sort of evil empire bent on world domination, want to incorporate such a tiny force?

The men and women who serve in our Defence Forces do a great job but they are very few in number and have feck all of the weapons and equipment required to participate in any kind of serious offensive military operation.[/QUOTE]

The Air Corps do have fighter jets.
The general level of Defence Forces equipment is quite good.

The critical issue is that all defence force personel are highly trained generally high calibre individuals.

This means that should rapid expansion of the army be required it could be done relatively quickly and easily.

To suggest that the Irish Defence forces should be prepared and supplied for the purposes of offensive operations completely misunderstands the very basis on which the O,Glaigh na hEireann is constituted.

The Irish Army was and is constitued on a defensive basis .

Their principal function is to defend the state in the event of armed aggression either internally or externally.

Your ill informed post fails to mention that both the British and American armies thought twice about invading Eire during the emergency.
[American bully boy ambassador David Grey actually threatened to invade
with his infamous American Note].

Of course they would have succeeded but they would have got a damm bloody nose and this was enough to deter them militarily.

As a neutral country the primary function of our Defence Forces must and should remain defensive.

[st333ve]

The British army also claims to be defensive, and whatabout the IDF?
Both quite clearly an offensive military, yet operate under the pretense of defence.

It would be very easy to twist words in order to suit your military outlook.

[He3]

so them coming home in bodybags or wheelchairs is progress

Plain talking is not welcome Charley. EU as a 'global player' is the message. Who would not want to be a 'player'? Games are fun. This is how you are supposed to see it:

- Germany supports the creation of a European army in the long term so that the EU can be a "global player," Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle told the Munich Security Conference on Saturday.

"The long-term goal is the establishment of a European army under full parliamentary control. The European Union must live up to its political role as a global player. It must be able to manage crises independently. It must be able to respond quickly, flexibly and to take a united stand," he said.

"We want strong European crisis management. This is not intended to replace other security structures. More Europe is not a strategy directed against anyone. No one has any reason to fear Europe, but everyone should be able to depend on Europe," he added.

You must pay to play of course.

He said however that this would require a pooling of resources and distribution of responsibility "even in times of ever scarcer means."

The concept of a European army was set out in the 27-nation EU's reforming Lisbon Treaty," he said.

France24 - German foreign minister backs idea of European army

They did flag this a few days before we voted on Lisbon the second time, as Napper Tandy spotted -

http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty...rm-project.htm

where seenitallbefore sardonically observed:

It's just an aspiration, lads......and when the French guy came out last week and said he wants military spending to be run centrally like the CAP, that was just an aspiration too..in no way connected at all...and they were only German and French aspirations....since when did the French and Germans ever have any real power in the EU? You are all mad tinfoil hat wearing lunatics. Attempting to connect the dots and discern a pattern is just a bunch of X files nonsense. It's dangerous thinking....now go back to watching X Factor and Spankwire....it'll be all ok.

[The Field Marshal]

The British army also claims to be defensive, and whatabout the IDF?
Both quite clearly an offensive military, yet operate under the pretense of defence.

It would be very easy to twist words in order to suit your military outlook.

There is no word twisting.
Defence means what it says.

It is not a pretence in Ireland.

The primary training is defensive.
Command and Staff operations are geared primarily toward defence of the island of Ireland in the event of external aggression

Offensive ops form part of that ,but the core strategy of the Irish Permanent Defence Forces is substantially defensive.

A very different thing is "Her Majestys Armed Forces" which is the official title of the British army.

This army operates a high level offensive/defensive capability and co-ordinates training & command to that end on an internationl scale.

[louis bernard]

[QUOTE=The Field Marshal;2440415]Sondagefaux


The Air Corps do have fighter jets.


They have fighter jets? Am I missing something? All I see them with are propeller driven WW2 types. Are they hiding the jets somewhere?

[sarahj]

Being in a real army is preferable to rotting on the dole. The economy of this country is banjaxed , there will not be any jobs for young men for the distant foreseeable future.

Killing people is better than having no job? What are you on? You think material comforts are all that should count in making decisions about what a person should do with their lives???

[Al.]

And? It's about time those EU states that don't have a fig leaf "neutrality" sham like we do, pool their resources and have an effective EU armed force for rapid deployment. It'll save money and prevent some of the catastrophic miscommunications that have happened in Afghanistan and other deployments.

Ireland won't and doesn't have to go along.

No, the TOL doesn't say we don't have to go along. It says that "Member States (without exception!) shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council" and "Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities"...(this is utterly independent of Article 44, remember, which establishes a secret police.)

Being in a real army is preferable to rotting on the dole. The economy of this country is banjaxed, there will not be any jobs for young men for the distant foreseeable future

You can thank the ECB for that and their raising interest rates eight times in a row in order to undermine the stock markets. Should have been listening when Helmut Kohl forecasted the formation of the EU Army back in the late 90s.

Don't forget the Vatican. According to Al they're in on it too

Explain why Catholic social teaching is written into all the TEUs, then, as well as the Charter of Fundamental Rights (which I don't recall Ireland "opting out" of). Also, if you don't mind, explain why the Reichskonkordat is still in force today, where the bishops were (and still are!) required to swear allegiance to a regime that's supposed to be dead. (There are a few other things, such as JPII's beatification of Archbishop Alojzije Stepanic, but why get into all of them on this thread.)

Quickest way to nail this latest lie about the EU is to remind people of the many previous times that this particular lie surfaced only to be shown to be false. There has been the facility for some time now, well before Lisbon, for EU countries to create a standing army. None has been created so far, and even if the Lisbon processes are used to do so in the next few years, not only do we (i.e. Ireland) have a cast-iron opt-out from participating in a common defence, but we also have a veto over any proposal to create such a capacity in the first place

Nobody proved anything to be false. And what veto? Everyone keeps saying "veto, veto", but there's nothing in the TOL that says that it cannot be legislated upon, and that's not the province of the Council whatsoever. And that's aside from the oustanding requirements to contribute civilian and military capabilities to the Union and to progressively undertake to improve military capabilities. The word "veto" appears nowhere in the Treaty of Lisbon.

Funny how when a news article comes up about the matter, people try to accuse it of being a "lie", and then suddenly it comes true.