EU poll: 52% would reject Turkish membership

[Chi019]

The grounds for such opposition are unquestionable: culturally and political Turkey does not match up to European democratic-standards. Economically and infrastructurally, Ireland is not prepared for another mass-influx of 100,000+ per annum. Culturally, Europe has proven incapable of successfully integrating millions of Muslim first and later generation-immigrants. Until such time as these obstacles are overcome (which I doubt will ever happen), the parties in Leinster House must see reason, listen (for once) to public opinion on Europe, and publicly come out against Turkish EU membership. Failing that, they should give the Irish people and opportunity to decide the issue in a referendum.

Agree 100%. Steve Sailer had an interesting article a while ago outlining why this would be a bad idea.

National borders work to quarantine chaos. The lack of borders that Muslims respect as legitimate exacerbates the region's instability...

The EU is designed to smother nationalist feelings. For Turks, however, the alternative to healthy nationalism would be Islamism, which is much more dangerous.

Finally, Turkish accession would be very bad for Europe.

Turkey's population within a couple of decades will be larger than Germany, currently the largest EU state. Turkish Muslims would be the single largest voting bloc within the EU. And it would be difficult to deny Turks for long the right possessed by other EU members to migrate anywhere within the EU.

How many Turks would move to Europe if given the chance? Well, about 1/6th of all people of Mexican descent in the world live in the United States. But the more realistic comparison would be Puerto Rico, which has unlimited legal migration rights with its rich neighbor, the U.S.

According to George Borjas, about 1/4th of Puerto Rico moved to the US mainland in a couple of decades, until the federal government started bribing Puerto Ricans to stay home with food stamps and the like. That would mean close to 20 million additional Muslims moving into Europe proper—on top of the 15 to 20 million already causing so much trouble.

That would be a cultural, political, and security disaster—not just for Europe, but also for the U.S.

Think about it this way: Admitting Turkey to the European Union would be very like admitting Mexico to the United States.

Indeed, Mexican President Vicente Fox explicitly wants an EU-like relationship with the U.S. and Canada. His former foreign minister Jorge Castaneda told the L.A. Times in 2001:

"That's what Fox essentially wants, the type of resource transfers that occurred in Spain and, before Spain, in Ireland, and, after Spain, in Portugal and Greece. The Germans were willing to build highways in Spain. Somebody else has to build our highways. We don't have the money." [Jorge Castaneda: Mexico's Man Abroad, LA Times, August 12, 2001, By Sergio Munoz]

For comparison:


Turkey's population is 69 million compared to Mexico's 105 million.


Turkey's per capita GDP is $6,700 compared to Mexico's $9,000.


Turkey's long term economic potential, while not awful, appears limited by a mediocre national average IQ. (A country's average IQ is an absolutely crucial datum in thinking about world affairs, but you won't see it cited many places other than VDARE.com).

Turkey's IQ structure appears to be fairly similar to Mexico's. Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and the Wealth of Nations do report one solid study of Turkey: the Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices was standardized on a representative sample of 2,277 Turkish children in 1992. The Turkish children averaged 90 on a scale in which the British average 100. Two studies of Turkish immigrants in the Netherlands reported averages of 88 and 85.

Lynn and Vanhanen's database contains only one study for Mexico, and that from the less developed Southern Highlands, where the average was 87. They also report three studies of Mexican immigrants in America, with averages of 84, 95, and 84. The authors of The Bell Curve, Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray, gave 91 as their best guess for the average IQ of Latinos.

All is not lost in Europe. Some Europeans have got the message. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard recently reported in the Daily Telegraph:

"A European commissioner set off a furious row yesterday after warning that Europe's Christian civilization risked being overrun by Islam. Fritz Bolkestein, the single market commissioner and a former leader of the Dutch liberals, said the European Union would ‘implode’ in its current form if 70 million Turkish Muslims were allowed to join. "

"He predicted that Turkish accession would overwhelm the fragile system and finish off any lingering dreams of a fully-integrated European superstate. In a speech at Leiden University, he compared the EU to the late Austrian-Hungarian empire, which took so many different peoples on board in such a haphazard fashion that it eventually became ungovernable."

[Muslim millions threaten EU values, says commissioner September 8, 2004]

Valery Giscard-D'Estaing, who was so weaselly about the Soviet threat when he was President of France, has surprisingly emerged as the Defender of Christendom by publicly expressing strong opposition to admitting Turkey. He says it would be "the end of Europe."

And he’s right.

So why is the Bush Administration pushing this dangerous step?

Haven't we learned lately that we don't know enough about foreigners in general—and Muslims in particular?

VDARE.com: 09/19/04 - Save Europe! Keep Turkey out of the EU

[Trampas]

It's a secular republic (and Erdogan, even if you believe half the rubbish printed about him, is not Prime Minister For Life - they have elections in Turkey!) with a secular constitution that's protected by its courts.

A "secular republic" with an islamist PM and govt, and a President whose wife and daughters wear the headscarf in the official residence. Erdogan has already given us his view of that secular state when he said....“ One cannot be a secularist and a Muslim at the same time”. As for those Turkish elections well here is Erdogan's comparison between democracy and a streetcar...... “You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off “.

As for being PM for life, Erdogan is perhaps the safest PM hereabouts, assisted by a 10% threshold for opposition parties. Call that democracy if you wish. The massive investment in Turkey by the Wahhabi regime in Saudi isn't hurting the AKP either, nor indeed Erdogan and Gul both of whom are dollar billionaires.

[realistic1]

I wonder is the remaining 48% of Muslim descent?????

[rhonda15]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bycnis96TUU&feature="]YouTube- Agenda: With George Friedman[/ame]

Apparently Turkey are no longer that pushed on EU membership and are looking instead to remain a powerful force in the middle east region

[Dr Pat]

Why is the EU is even considering Turkey for membership in the first place? It is not European in geographical, political or societal terms. In addition, its population is Muslim and does not have the European Judeo-Christian heritage of Europe.

Is it economics that is the driving force here? Is that the sum total of "European values" so laudly trumpeted by Europhiles?

[Fantasia]

P.ie poll: 52% reject 'Dr. Pat'

[McDave]

P.ie poll: 52% reject 'Dr. Pat'

You mean the other 48% accept trolling?

[pete2]

Like the EU gives a monkeys what the masses do or do not want. Turkey will be bolted on somehow as have north Africa and the mideast through the European Neighborhood Policy. You can call it a buffer zone, or incremental expansionism but it all adds up to the same thing, the EU elites want to keep on growing their power and territory.


European Neighbourhood Policy - Reference documents

[The_Big_Fellow]

The EU could be the first super state to hang itself by administrative imperial overreach.

[darkhorse]

Islamic countries in general have no commitment to democracy - its actually against their religeon. Try to think of any fully democratic Islamic country? We might as well allow Iran to join the EU!