Germany leads the EU

[ibis]

I know.
It was the implication, something that occurred 60 years ago. Which is significant given that he replied to my origonal post referring to the 'colonial or attention-seeking expansionism' comment.
He too accepted that it was at least partly responsible for the foundation of the EU.

It's a pretty well-established historical fact, after all.

What is it replaced with, if it is replaced? 'Soft power' or this 'colonial or attention-seeking expansionism' which Germany is apparently not guilty of?

We don't know yet. I'm not sure exactly what the 'colonial or attention-seeking expansionism' is, if we're not talking about the essentially US efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Can you put forward some recent examples of non-US-led European adventurism?

What we can say, I think, is that on present evidence, it's likely that a lot more of the world's history is likely to be European in the near future than has been the case for over half a century, and that in turn the choice of whether that history is written using 'soft power' or 'hard power' is largely up to us as European citizens.

[McDave]

Even the editors at the Washington Post acknowledge that...

Most conservative (e.g. WSJ), and even more middle-of-the-road ones (NYT/IHT) US newspapers have a tendency to simplify "Europe". It's interesting to speculate and reduce European political action to simple formulae. But that's all it is. Simplification.

For sure Germany punches above its weight in the EU, and it's location in Europe is very central. So its interests are always going to be on the agenda. IMO, that's the level the WP should be analysing Germany and Merkel on.

[Catalpa]

I would rather have the Germans exercising foreign policy leadership in the EU than the British, French or Italians. They take principled stances on issues and avoid colonial or attention-seeking expansionism.

Yeah - they got their fingers burnt on that one!

Lost a couple of limbs too...

Once bitten - twice shy...

[DaBrow]

Even the editors at the Washington Post acknowledge that...

Mail Online - Euroseptic: Mary Ellen Synon in Brussels
"But quite apart from the protection this international muscle gives to big Britain, look at how little Norway, a European country of just 4.6m people, lives in prosperity and independence outside the EU. The Norwegian people have been asked twice in referendums if they wanted to join the EU. Twice they have voted No. "

This might be the daily mail but Norways situation looks ever more attractive by the minute as an EFTA member.

[Pauli]

Mail Online - Euroseptic: Mary Ellen Synon in Brussels
"But quite apart from the protection this international muscle gives to big Britain, look at how little Norway, a European country of just 4.6m people, lives in prosperity and independence outside the EU. The Norwegian people have been asked twice in referendums if they wanted to join the EU. Twice they have voted No. "

This might be the daily mail but Norways situation looks ever more attractive by the minute as an EFTA member.

But unlike other EFTA members, Norway has lots of oil it wants to keep for itself. It is why they vote no. Switzerland votes no for a completely different reason. Obviously. It has no oil.

[DaBrow]

But unlike other EFTA members, Norway has lots of oil it wants to keep for itself. It is why they vote no. Switzerland votes no for a completely different reason. Obviously. It has no oil.

What do you think we have in the Corrib? Diamonds?

Shell and the other oil companies with government consent have been taking our oil for years..... We have billions if not trillions of it but are not benefitting from it.

Switzerland has many talents: Banking, Confectionary, Tourism, Watchmaking, Cheese etc.... they're doing OK.

Ireland would be now more prosperous and economically stronger as and a EFTA Member have the independence being an EU State now doesn't grant you.

[GreenBack]

I'm not sure exactly what the 'colonial or attention-seeking expansionism' is, if we're not talking about the essentially US efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Can you put forward some recent examples of non-US-led European adventurism?

What we can say, I think, is that on present evidence, it's likely that a lot more of the world's history is likely to be European in the near future.

I think you're confusing me with Panopticon, he or she was the one talking about France, Britain and Italy's colonial adventurism. I quoted the phraise with the hope of eliciting some evidence to back up the claim and the idea that Germany is whiter than white.

I believe Europe will still continue to play a significant role in world events but wouldn't subscribe to the idea that America's power is going to decline seriously. There's also rising power of China and to a lesser extent India. I also don't buy into the idea being put forward by some that if European's power was on a par with that of America over the last 60+ years the world would some how be a nicer place.

[Panopticon]

I think you're confusing me with Panopticon, he or she was the one talking about France, Britain and Italy's colonial adventurism. I quoted the phraise with the hope of eliciting some evidence to back up the claim and the idea that Germany is whiter than white.

I believe Europe will still continue to play a significant role in world events but wouldn't subscribe to the idea that America's power is going to decline seriously. There's also rising power of China and to a lesser extent India. I also don't buy into the idea being put forward by some that if European's power was on a par with that of America over the last 60+ years the world would some how be a nicer place.

Sure. The UK has no independent foreign policy - they will act as America's lapdog. A Tony Blair leadership of EU foreign policy in particular would be appalling. He would impose pressure on the EU to back Obama or his successor if, e.g., the US decided to invade Iran. France dreams of exerting imperial power from the Atlantic to the Persian Gulf, and it is actively expanding its military presence in Africa and Arabia. (e.g. Chad.) I don't think Italy has those ambitions, but Italy isn't really in contention to lead things in the EU, I should hope.

In contrast, Germany has had an excellent record on foreign policy. They are very sceptical about the use of military power, due to the actions of Hitler. They give more moral support to Israel than the rest of Europe, much of which is still eager to believe blood libels like the Jenin myth. They don't seem to do much to promote human rights abroad. But I don't necessarily think the EU should be all that active in foreign policy, so that should be the role of states. The only flaw with Germany in this sense is its dependency on Russian natural gas, but the same applies to the other Continental powers.

(This contribution is predicated on the fact that Germany nowadays is a radically different country to the Germany of the 1930s. Nationalism and war are "dirty words" in Germany today and there is widespread revulsion at the ideas that led to the Second World War. I think this is obvious to anyone who knows modern Germany, and to claim otherwise is either paranoid or brainwashed by Rupert Murdoch's British trash papers - so much of politics.ie, in other words.)

[Al.]

This contribution is predicated on the fact that Germany nowadays is a radically different country to the Germany of the 1930s

So IOW, it's wishful thinking and not based on hard reality. When you have people like Wolfgang Schäuble and Europhile Peer Steinbrück warning against the far right possibly taking over Germany due to taking advantage of the financial crisis or some other crisis, then that speaks to Germany being not so radically different from that of the 1930s. When the German government recently re-invokes the Munich Agreement in defence of the descendants of Sudeten Germans that were expelled from the former Czechoslovakia under the Benes Decrees (a Nazi-era dictate that was supposed to be null and void ex tunc), that speaks to Germany being too similar to its identity of the 1930s.

I don't necessarily think the EU should be all that active in foreign policy, so that should be the role of states

Well, although I agree with your sentiment, you don't direct EU foreign policy; the Treaty of Lisbon does, and that encapsulates precisely the opposite of your sentiment.

[Pauli]

What do you think we have in the Corrib? Diamonds?

Shell and the other oil companies with government consent have been taking our oil for years..... We have billions if not trillions of it but are not benefitting from it.

Switzerland has many talents: Banking, Confectionary, Tourism, Watchmaking, Cheese etc.... they're doing OK.

Ireland would be now more prosperous and economically stronger as and a EFTA Member have the independence being an EU State now doesn't grant you.

Ireland simply cannot go it alone at this point in time. A return to the punt would sink Ireland without trace in days. Whether it would ever be possible for Ireland to go it alone again is debatable.