Germany leads the EU

[GreenBack]

I would rather have the Germans exercising foreign policy leadership in the EU than the British, French or Italians. They take principled stances on issues and avoid colonial or attention-seeking expansionism.

"attention-seeking expansionism" what the f@ck was WWII

[ibis]

"attention-seeking expansionism" what the f@ck was WWII

Something that ended over 60 years ago?

[GreenBack]

Something that ended over 60 years ago?

It may be an insignificant event to you, I suspect you're in the minority, but it's the foundation of the EU isn't it?

And Italy's recent examples of colonial or attention-seeking expansionism?

[TommyO'Brien]

Germany's always been the driver. France is the conductor, or maybe the inspector, but never the driver.Maybe it's the wrong bus. The Celtic Tiger came to be without riding that bus, but by getting on that bus, the tiger lost its stripes and now the Eagle (as in Adler) is picking at its bones.

As for the latter part of that post, very demeaning. Is that what you think of yourself??? You have that completely backwards. Germany's the most colonial and expansionist of any country in the EU. As I mentioned in the thread about zu Guttenberg, Germany's been entrenched in Afghanistan since the 1920s; they're also deeply entrenched in Africa, e.g. Rwanda and parts of the former Zaïre. They're also behind the Tibet and Xinjiang uprisings, as well as many upheavals in South America. They were the cause of the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, which resulted in the EU taking on big chunks of the Balkans (and if that doesn't sound like a repeat of history, I don't know what does).

If the EU is a bus, you are the drunk wino muttering nothings to himself at the back.

[ibis]

It may be an insignificant event to you, I suspect you're in the minority, but it's the foundation of the EU isn't it?

The end of it, yes, and the prevention of a repeat - and indeed Germany's guilt, to some extent. Two generations, however, is two generations, and Germany is, as far as I'm aware, neither under the control of a Kaiser or a reckless dictator. That Germany is Europe's biggest economy - and that the Deutschmark was Europe's most important currency - are unavoidable facts.

And Italy's recent examples of colonial or attention-seeking expansionism?

The American-dominated post-war structure is breaking down, as was bound to happen once the collapse of the USSR meant that Europe and Japan need no longer be US protectorates - and that means the re-emergence of the European powers as global players. Given the US' recent behaviour, I have a certain amount of difficulty agreeing that that's such a terrible thing - although, as I've said before, I'd rather the European countries agreed on the exercise of soft power through the EU than hard power through emulating the US' theatrical militarism.

[GreenBack]

The end of it, yes, and the prevention of a repeat - and indeed Germany's guilt, to some extent. Two generations, however, is two generations, and Germany is, as far as I'm aware, neither under the control of a Kaiser or a reckless dictator. That Germany is Europe's biggest economy - and that the Deutschmark was Europe's most important currency - are unavoidable facts.



The American-dominated post-war structure is breaking down, as was bound to happen once the collapse of the USSR meant that Europe and Japan need no longer be US protectorates - and that means the re-emergence of the European powers as global players. Given the US' recent behaviour, I have a certain amount of difficulty agreeing that that's such a terrible thing - although, as I've said before, I'd rather the European countries agreed on the exercise of soft power through the EU than hard power through emulating the US' theatrical militarism.

On your first point, you are right of course, there's no Kaiser or dictator in German.
So you'd be happy to see the end to American's hegonomy - who wouldn't. But you dont mind if it's replaced by Italy, Frances or Britain's colonial or attention-seeking expansionism. Doesn't sound too soft to me.

[hiding behind a poster]

It may be an insignificant event to you, I suspect you're in the minority, but it's the foundation of the EU isn't it?

He didn't say WW2 was insignificant. He said it happened over 60 years ago.

[hiding behind a poster]

On your first point, you are right of course, there's no Kaiser or dictator in German.
So you'd be happy to see the end to American's hegonomy - who wouldn't.

Well surely that depends on what American hegemony is replaced with?

[ibis]

On your first point, you are right of course, there's no Kaiser or dictator in German.
So you'd be happy to see the end to American's hegonomy - who wouldn't. But you dont mind if it's replaced by Italy, Frances or Britain's colonial or attention-seeking expansionism. Doesn't sound too soft to me.

Maybe, maybe not - I don't think the public appetite for colonialism exists in the European countries to a sufficient degree to sustain such adventurism in any overt way, and it's hard these days to control the flow of information to a sufficient extent except where, as in Iraq, conditions are too dangerous for reportage.

Having said that, this is an instructive little map:



Those purple bits in Africa are countries whose currencies were pegged to the franc, and which are now pegged to the euro...

[GreenBack]

He didn't say WW2 was insignificant. He said it happened over 60 years ago.

I know.
It was the implication, something that occurred 60 years ago. Which is significant given that he replied to my origonal post referring to the 'colonial or attention-seeking expansionism' comment.
He too accepted that it was at least partly responsible for the foundation of the EU.

What is it replaced with, if it is replaced? 'Soft power' or this 'colonial or attention-seeking expansionism' which Germany is apparently not guilty of?