EU leaders meeting in *Berlin* on Monday (President picked?)

[Al.]

Tin-foil hats all round

It's completely factual that the ECB raised interest rates eight times in a row during '07-'08 and that it was directly responsible for the financial crisis.

There is no position of "EU President" on offer. The post that is being considered is non-executive and as such doesn't merit the holding of a federal-style direct election

That's not what the Treaty of Lisbon says. In fact, the Treaty of Lisbon is quite moot on the potential of the post. So kindly stop posting assumptions and/or baseless claims.

And show some support for democracy once in your life instead of tyranny.

unless it's a federal super-state you really want to usher in, AI?

We're not on a first-name basis, so it's "sir" to you.

A democratic "federal superstate" would be better than the empire that the EU is "usher(ing) in".

[TommyO'Brien]

It's completely factual that the ECB raised interest rates eight times in a row during '07-'08 and that it was directly responsible for the financial crisis.

No it wasn't.

That's not what the Treaty of Lisbon says. In fact, the Treaty of Lisbon is quite moot on the potential of the post. So kindly stop posting assumptions and/or baseless claims.

Your ignorance of what Lisbon says never ceases to plump new depths. It says the exact opposite of your fantasy. It is a non-executive chairmanship, nothing more. The job has existed in 1975. (The first holder was Liam Cosgrave.)

All that is changing is that as the European Council (NOT the Council of Ministers, which is a different body) is being transferred from the intergovernmental pillar where it existed parallel to EU institutions into a European institution. The presidency of the European Council as a result is also being transferred into becoming a European institution. In a legal sense as they have a 'new' status both are being 'created' but in practice as they have existed for forty years they are simply transferring the existing structures into treaty law. Because a 27 council is much more difficult and time-consuming to run than the old six or nine council the chairpersonship is being changed from a six-month rotation to a term-limited job with the term being two and a half-years and the office-holder being able to serve no more than 2 terms.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about. (So no change there then!)

[Pauli]

So they were in effect purchasing Ireland ?

No they weren't. They were giving Ireland the funds needed to bring the country up from a very low industiral base to a level where, under normal circumstances, we would have had increasing and sustainable living standards from being able to punch our weight and above it in economic terms.

We were gifted the wherewithal to improve our economy. We improved it but in an idiotic way which had no sustainability about it at all. Hence the monumental crash. While we should be grateful to the EU and Germany in particular, The shambles we find our economy in now was almost totally home grown. That's what you get when you elect incompetent, inept, moronic gobshytes into office. The anti-EU sentiment one finds in Ireland is really an expression of a point blank refusal to look facts in the face.

[setanta]

No it wasn't.



Your ignorance of what Lisbon says never ceases to plump new depths. It says the exact opposite of your fantasy. It is a non-executive chairmanship, nothing more. The job has existed in 1975. (The first holder was Liam Cosgrave.)

All that is changing is that as the European Council (NOT the Council of Ministers, which is a different body) is being transferred from the intergovernmental pillar where it existed parallel to EU institutions into a European institution. The presidency of the European Council as a result is also being transferred into becoming a European institution. In a legal sense as they have a 'new' status both are being 'created' but in practice as they have existed for forty years they are simply transferring the existing structures into treaty law. Because a 27 council is much more difficult and time-consuming to run than the old six or nine council the chairpersonship is being changed from a six-month rotation to a term-limited job with the term being two and a half-years and the office-holder being able to serve no more than 2 terms.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about. (So no change there then!)

Thanks Tommy. I was about to respond to AI's mutterings untill I spotted your demolition of his post. I guess if you really believe that the EU is a German conspiracy for global domination, the idea for which was developed by the Nazis, then actually reading any of the Treaties will be a task quite beyond you. That's why I mentioned tin-foil hats ... I wonder what AI's next lie about the EU will be?

[Al.]

It's completely factual that the ECB raised interest rates eight times in a row during '07-'08 and that it was directly responsible for the financial crisis

No it wasn't

Can you prove that? or are you just reacting from your gut, as it were...?

Or do you mean that I was mistaken about the span of time? I apologise; it was between 2005 and 2008 that the ECB did this interest-rate hiking. The effect was to enrich the ECB, and to enrich Germany in particular.

Your ignorance of what Lisbon says never ceases to plum(b) new depths

If I were indeed ignorant of what Lisbon says, you would have used the text against me. But I'm not, and you can't, so you fall back on ad hominems. (Using ad hominems means that you lose the argument, incidentally; argumentum ad hominem is a formal logical fallacy, and also discredits those that stoop to using it as primary argument.) I would gladly debate on the facts, if you care to elevate your demeanour and present them and naught else.

BTW, your forefather, Brian Boru (and mine; my maternal grandmother was an O'Brien) fought to drive the Vikings out of Ireland. How diametrically opposite of his character you show yourself to be; more like Dermot MacMurrough, sad to say.

All that is changing is that as the European Council (NOT the Council of Ministers, which is a different body) is being transferred from the intergovernmental pillar where it existed parallel to EU institutions into a European institution. The presidency of the European Council as a result is also being transferred into becoming a European institution. In a legal sense as they have a 'new' status both are being 'created' but in practice as they have existed for forty years they are simply transferring the existing structures into treaty law. Because a 27 council is much more difficult and time-consuming to run than the old six or nine council the chairpersonship is being changed from a six-month rotation to a term-limited job with the term being two and a half-years and the office-holder being able to serve no more than 2 terms

None of this is in question. I know the difference between the European Council and the COM. Consolidation of unelected positions, combined with the "write your own job description" leeway in the Treaty of Lisbon re: the POTEU, marks a vast consolidation of political power in the EU.

Anyhow, here's an update from EUobserver. This kind of stuff would have been imposed on us even with a No vote, so there's little comfort in any of this other than some (dubious) smug satisfaction in the knowledge that both "yes" and "no" sides were bound to lose. (Even the supposedly-defeated EU Constitution Treaty is being implemented; the tokens of that were the playing of "Ode to Joy" and the use of the flag at the departure ceremony for Hans-Gert Pöttering.)

[size=4]EU leaders to discuss top jobs at Berlin dinner[/size]

[size=1]LEIGH PHILLIPS
09-11-2009 @ 10:38 CET[/size]

Visiting leaders from across the European Union are expected to use the festivities surrounding the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall for informal talks over the appointment of the European Council president and EU foreign policy chief.

The leaders will try to agree on the two posts at a dinner in the German capital on Monday (9 November) evening, with Swedish Prime Minister Frederik Reinfeld having taken soundings in recent days from his EU peers. ...

[The OD]

Cowen will be told who to vote for.

France and Germany will be the key deciders in this with Britain, Italy & Spain playing a supporting role.

Poland has already been looked after with the appointment of Jerzy Buzek as President of the European Parliament.

We are on the Outer Rim and will be given our instructions under the veneer of a 'request' to support the pre chosen candidate.

Thats the reality from here on in - no matter how much people like Dick Roche can trumpet the nonsensical phrase ''at the heart of Europe'', the truth is that we are not at the heart of anything and the EU is only interested in our opinions when they coincide with the opinions of the majority.

We are indeed on the rim and Lisbon copperfastened that.

[marmurr1916]

[SCARY MUSIC]Meeting in Berlin, eh? Berlin folks, BERLIN! On the 9th of November! Did anything significant ever happen in BERLIN on the 9th of November!!????[/SCARY MUSIC]

[marmurr1916]

argumentum ad hominem is a formal logical fallacy, and also discredits those that stoop to using it as primary argument.) I would gladly debate on the facts, if you care to elevate your demeanour and present them and naught else.

BTW, your forefather, Brian Boru (and mine; my maternal grandmother was an O'Brien) fought to drive the Vikings out of Ireland. How diametrically opposite of his character you show yourself to be; more like Dermot MacMurrough, sad to say.