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  1. #111
    physicist physicist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo9jo View Post
    Yes, they still want to join and have done huge work to meet the requirements laid down by the EU to qualifily for membership.
    Accession of Turkey to the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    (look under the heading "Timeline")
    Well the crisis extended across Europe being outside of EU hasn't prevented massive instability to other nations

    Ignoring Croatia being a future EU member you've got CEFTA countries expect a difficult transition from Croatia's EU accession (SETimes.com)

    Bosnia-Herzegovina, Andorra, Kosovo, Montenegro, Monaco, the VCS and San Marino being "Euro enablers"

    Switzerland pegging the Swiss Franc to the Euro brings in Liechenstine too.

    Ukraine and Iceland being part of the IMF bailed out six along with GRIP nations (Greece, Romania, Ireland and Portugal)

    Norweigans $131,220 Per person in external trade debt despite the oil money and far from "safe".
    Norwegian economy | Norway's 'safe haven' status could harm its economic health - QFINANCE

    Russia suffering a major export loss and major unemployment rise as a result.
    Euro zone crisis to hit Russian industry | Reuters

    Serbia, Macedonia, Albania as well as Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro and Croatia in trouble
    Euro Crisis Sapping Balkan Recovery, EBRD Warns :: Balkan Insight

    Moldova, ironically between two IMF bailed out nations has a fairly low deficit ... as the poorest nation in Europe this is perhaps unsurprising.

    Oh and Belarus despite sanctions wanting EU handouts Belarusian dictatorship wants money from the EBRD - Charter'97 :: News from Belarus - Belarusian News - Republic of Belarus - Minsk

    who's left?

    The Caucasius nations and Central Asia http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/WBEUROPEEXTN/GERMANYEXTN/0,,contentMDK:23177574~

    North Africa Arab spring + European autumn = Mediterranean crisis | Michael White | Business | guardian.co.uk

    The Sovereign Military Order of Malta???
    Sovereign Military Order of Malta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... no wait they use Euros or the Europegged Maltese scudo too

    Yip Outside that pesky EU, Europe's doing grand!
    Last edited by physicist; 19th May 2012 at 01:18 AM.
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  2. #112
    Hudson Hudson is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trampas View Post
    By any standard or system of measurement those events could reasonably be called a genocide, a description that has already been accepted by a number of western states.

    At that time the German ambassador to Constantinople, one Hans von Wangenheim, having remained silent for as long as possible, declared in a dispatch to Berlin that the Ottoman government was "trying to exterminate the Armenian race in the Turkish empire”. If that isn't evidence of genocide then I am at a loss to know what is. That ambassador could hardly stand accused of acting out of hostility towards his wartime ally.
    The opinion of one person ≠ reality. There was inter-communal strife throughout central and eastern Anatolia. Armenians had been massacring Muslim villages and later they worked to dismember Anatolia in co-operation with the French and Russians. It has never, anywhere, been demonstrated beyond doubt that Talat Pasha and others adopted a policy of systematic murder of Armenians in Anatolia.

    One could ask whether the years between 1912-1922 could be referred to as a systematic genocide against Muslims? Beginning with the Balkan wars and ending with the re-taking of Smyrna by the Turks. In any case, it is not for states to decide what or what is not a genocide, such as what was happening in France not long ago. one should expect they'll be busy voting on each and every nasty event in history - starting with their own actions in Africa. These are all very cheap political maneuvers.
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  3. #113
    asknoquestions asknoquestions is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    Let them in. The more the merrier and the less likely a federal EU will be possible.

    I'd like to see Germany and France forced to open their economies to Turkish workers immediately though, while the rest of us hold off for 7 years or thereabouts...
    Interestingly (fast and loose use of the word), there has been net outward migration of Turks from Germany to Turkey over the past couple of years because of the improving economy back home.
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  4. #114
    Trampas Trampas is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
    The opinion of one person ≠ reality. There was inter-communal strife throughout central and eastern Anatolia. Armenians had been massacring Muslim villages and later they worked to dismember Anatolia in co-operation with the French and Russians. It has never, anywhere, been demonstrated beyond doubt that Talat Pasha and others adopted a policy of systematic murder of Armenians in Anatolia.
    You seem to be happy to ignore those forced marches out of Turkey and all that harassment along the way, often by Kurds who now seem to be regarded as victim du jour in the region. For most Armenians those expulsions were just as "systematic" as a firing squad.

    p.s. Why do you dismiss the view of the German ambassador to Constantinople ?
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  5. #115
    Hudson Hudson is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trampas View Post
    You seem to be happy to ignore those forced marches out of Turkey
    Just as others 'seem' happy to use alleged incidents for political ends, ignoring the violent expulsion of Muslims from the Balkans, the massacre of Muslim villages by Armenians in Anatolia and the crimes of the Greeks between the years of 1919-1922.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trampas View Post
    p.s. Why do you dismiss the view of the German ambassador to Constantinople ?
    I don't dismiss them but I would have to read the original and know on what basis his statement was made prior to making comment because İstanbul is closer to Tirana than some of the places were incidents are alleged to have happened.
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  6. #116
    Trampas Trampas is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
    Just as others 'seem' happy to use alleged incidents for political ends, ignoring the violent expulsion of Muslims from the Balkans......
    Hardly germane to the Armenian issue under discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
    the massacre of Muslim villages by Armenians in Anatolia
    A controversial allegation. Highly questionable. For example the alleged "massacres" of Muslims at Van were denied by German officers stationed in that area.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson View Post

    and the crimes of the Greeks between the years of 1919-1922.
    After the event. You are getting ahead of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson View Post

    I don't dismiss them but I would have to read the original and know on what basis his statement was made prior to making comment because İstanbul is closer to Tirana than some of the places were incidents are alleged to have happened
    The German ambassador to Constantinople was not alone. His Austrian counterpart (and others) concurred. In fact he spoke directly with Talaat and urged him to "avoid the persecution of women and children". Didn't happen. They were all persecuted.......and the women were raped.
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  7. #117
    wengazi wengazi is offline

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    vcbcbcvb
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  8. #118
    Eddie Collins Eddie Collins is offline

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    The EU needs the addition of 75 million poor asian muslims like a hole on the head.
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  9. #119
    sondagefaux sondagefaux is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Who are now essentially invisible having integrated seamlessly.
    For real?
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  10. #120
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    Turkey is at war with a large section of it's own citizens. Their right to self determination is continually ignored. And the politicians running Turkey are being bankrolled by the extremely wealthy.

    While an indication of compatibility with Brussels, does this amount to sufficient justification, for membership of the EU ?
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