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  1. #8851
    Dublin 4 Dublin 4 is offline
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    Crisis worsening...

    Spain has become the new Greece. Actually, in many respects Spain is now worse than Greece.


    So far, Brussels has not let facts get in the way of a good neo-liberal theory, but it’s getting increasingly hard to ignore this emerging horror show.
    EconoMonitor : EconoMonitor Spain Is the New Greece

    Eurozone to break up by 2015: 1/5


    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/curren...grp_ids=591635
    Last edited by Dublin 4; 1st May 2012 at 11:34 PM.
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  2. #8852
    Dublin 4 Dublin 4 is offline
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  3. #8853
    hiker hiker is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by McDave View Post
    Yes. About hedge funds taking a punt. I got that part.

    My point was about the use of the word 'supposed' to qualify the so-called wisdom of this 'investor' type. After all, in reality, many hedge funds have had a particularly rough time over their EZ bets in the last while. What's to say their future bets (with other people's money) are going to be any better.

    As for two years? Yes indeed, the thread is closing in on its second birthday. And the Euro is still here. With all 17 members (even Greece - how about that!). That's reality too.

    And most of the countries in the EZ are doing quite fine despite the international crisis and the unravelling of the speculative Anglo-Saxon financial house of cards in Wall Street and the Square Mile (and the suckers who 'invested' in their dodgy 'products').

    Reality cuts both ways DTG. Maybe you should just admit the Euro is here to stay.
    In many ways, McDave, you are your own worst enemy.
    You cannot win this argument.

    Certainly not on a serious level.....
    the question of whether the Euro survives or not will not decided on a website!


    The propaganda war being fought through the internet is of greater concern to me because most of the mainstream media have not yet realized that the debate is formulated HERE on websites like P.ie and no doubt other equivalents across the continent.

    I like a good conspiracy theory like the next man but what is happeneing to the "discussion" is more interesting than the discussion itself.


    Who controls the news?



    Fun, eh?
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  4. #8854
    Cassandra Syndrome Cassandra Syndrome is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by McDave View Post
    Yes. About hedge funds taking a punt. I got that part.

    My point was about the use of the word 'supposed' to qualify the so-called wisdom of this 'investor' type. After all, in reality, many hedge funds have had a particularly rough time over their EZ bets in the last while. What's to say their future bets (with other people's money) are going to be any better.

    As for two years? Yes indeed, the thread is closing in on its second birthday. And the Euro is still here. With all 17 members (even Greece - how about that!). That's reality too.

    And most of the countries in the EZ are doing quite fine despite the international crisis and the unravelling of the speculative Anglo-Saxon financial house of cards in Wall Street and the Square Mile (and the suckers who 'invested' in their dodgy 'products').

    Reality cuts both ways DTG. Maybe you should just admit the Euro is here to stay.
    The Credit Crunch officially began almost 5 years ago in France with BNP Paribus.

    BBC NEWS | Business | ECB moves to help banking sector

    Of course the poison originates all around the world, particularly with the US subprime mortgage sector. But the ECB is the most guilty Central Bank of them all.

    As I said before the Euro would work with a gold standard and no central bank propping up diseased banks and with free movement of capital but suitably thrifty and relatively scarce.

    Derivatives would be contained within the realm they had been for the best part of 2,000 years, trading on futures with physical money.
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  5. #8855
    McDave McDave is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiker View Post
    In many ways, McDave, you are your own worst enemy.
    You cannot win this argument.

    Certainly not on a serious level.....
    the question of whether the Euro survives or not will not decided on a website!


    The propaganda war being fought through the internet is of greater concern to me because most of the mainstream media have not yet realized that the debate is formulated HERE on websites like P.ie and no doubt other equivalents across the continent.

    I like a good conspiracy theory like the next man but what is happeneing to the "discussion" is more interesting than the discussion itself.


    Who controls the news?



    Fun, eh?
    The funny thing is after almost four years on this forum, I find myself going back to the traditional media for serious information and analysis. In the last couple of years, I've taken out online subs to the FT, IT and SB Post. If a sub, no matter how modest, was required to access this site, I simply wouldn't bother. If news breaks, I'm likely to wait for proper considered coverage from the FT. I'll dip into P.ie alright. Cochrane's headline initiative (when used sparingly) is a decent enough offering. And there are some posters whose perspectives I value. But I'm afraid when it comes to online, I'll be much more persuaded by what I read on irisheconomy.ie or from certain Irish newspaper commentators.

    I don't think discussion boards really set the agenda. They tend to follow events broken elsewhere, and are more for blowing off steam. To that extent it seems to me that they are largely negative.

    I think Lisbon 2 demonstrated that. There was much heat on P.ie. But the Yes vote was resounding. And the ratification aftermath was further proof of the deep-rooted negativity at large on the forum. Every stroke of Vaclav Klaus's moustache had P.ie Eurosceptics in paroxysms in anticipation of a ratification failure that never came. I fear it's going to be the same with the Stability Treaty Referendum. And (dare I say it! ) with the stabilisation of the Eurozone!!
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  6. #8856
    hiker hiker is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by McDave View Post
    The funny thing is after almost four years on this forum, I find myself going back to the traditional media for serious information and analysis. In the last couple of years, I've taken out online subs to the FT, IT and SB Post. If a sub, no matter how modest, was required to access this site, I simply wouldn't bother. If news breaks, I'm likely to wait for proper considered coverage from the FT. I'll dip into P.ie alright. Cochrane's headline initiative (when used sparingly) is a decent enough offering. And there are some posters whose perspectives I value. But I'm afraid when it comes to online, I'll be much more persuaded by what I read on irisheconomy.ie or from certain Irish newspaper commentators.

    I don't think discussion boards really set the agenda. They tend to follow events broken elsewhere, and are more for blowing off steam. To that extent it seems to me that they are largely negative.

    I think Lisbon 2 demonstrated that. There was much heat on P.ie. But the Yes vote was resounding. And the ratification aftermath was further proof of the deep-rooted negativity at large on the forum. Every stroke of Vaclav Klaus's moustache had P.ie Eurosceptics in paroxysms in anticipation of a ratification failure that never came. I fear it's going to be the same with the Stability Treaty Referendum. And (dare I say it! ) with the stabilisation of the Eurozone!!

    Fair and square, but its the broad brush strokes that the internet paints that I find interesting.

    I don't pay a lot of attention to individual comments but I do tend to watch "trends".....

    "Trending issues" influence people and that is becoming Internet (media) fact, I believe.


    say it often enough and it becomes truth...(Goebbels, perhaps?)


    this is probably not the forum for it but its an interesting enough phenomena to warrant further attention....
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  7. #8857
    McDave McDave is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiker View Post
    say it often enough and it becomes truth...(Goebbels, perhaps?)
    It doesn't sound like something Goebbels would have said.

    - Apologies to Homer Simpson
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  8. #8858
    Cassandra Syndrome Cassandra Syndrome is offline
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    OK Doom Pornstars. This morning we had


    07:45



    EUR Italian Purchasing Manager Index Manufacturing (APR)

    Low

    Actual 43.8

    Estimate 47.1

    Previous 47.9

    07:50



    EUR French Purchasing Manager Index Manufacturing (APR F)

    Low

    Actual 46.9

    Estimated 47.3

    Previous 47.3








    07:55
    LIVE



    EUR German Unemployment Change (APR)

    High

    Actual 19K

    Estimated -10K

    Previous -13K













    07:55



    EUR German Purchasing Manager Index Manufacturing (APR F)

    Medium

    Actual 46.2

    Estimated 46.3

    Previous 46.3













    07:55
    LIVE



    EUR German Unemployment Rate s.a. (APR)

    Medium

    Actual 6.8%

    Estimate 6.70%

    Previous 6.8%













    08:00



    EUR Euro-Zone Purchasing Manager Index Manufacturing (APR F)

    Medium

    Actual 45.9

    Estimated 46

    Previous 46













    08:00



    EUR Italy Unemployment Rate (SA) [MAR P]

    Actual 9.8%
    Estimate 9.4%
    Previous 9.6%
    And action...
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  9. #8859
    sport02 sport02 is online now
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    Not great news this morning.

    Twitter

    Twitter

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    Spain needs to restructure its debt now.
    Spain should be restructuring its debt right now, Matthew Lynn, founder of Strategy Economics, told CNBC's "European Closing Bell," suggesting a 50 percent haircut on Spanish sovereign debt holdings now in order to get the country back on track.

    “The problem in Spain is that they’re just following exactly the same path as Greece – which is to insist on austerity; to make cuts; to push through structural reform, and hope that the structural reform comes through in time to generate enough growth to get the economy moving again,” Lynn said.

    “But it didn’t work in Greece. It hasn’t worked in Ireland or Portugal. And it won’t work for Spain,” he added.

    The trouble is that austerity measures destroy the ability to stabilize
    News Headlines
    Last edited by sport02; 2nd May 2012 at 10:13 AM.
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  10. #8860
    Dublin 4 Dublin 4 is offline
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    And here's the Treble from the Irish Times with a rabbit punch from France as Spain enters "Depression"...

    Italy's unemployment rate rose more than economists forecast in March to the highest point since 2000 as companies failed to hire amid signs of a deepening recession in the euro region's third-largest economy.


    Italian unemployment at 12-year high - The Irish Times - Wed, May 02, 2012

    Euro region manufacturing shrank for a ninth month in April, adding to signs an economic slump in the region is getting worse.


    Euro region manufacturing slumps - The Irish Times - Wed, May 02, 2012

    Annual profits at the UK parent of the Argos and Hombase chains fell by 60 per cent as consumer electronic and kitchen sales declined.


    Profits at Argos down by 57% - The Irish Times - Wed, May 02, 2012

    https://twitter.com/#!/lemondefr/sta...14436272443393

    (Euro area: new high unemployment rate, at 10.9% in March)!!!

    https://twitter.com/#!/hblodget/stat...20860557869056
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