The Motor trade and RTE

[Colada]

You really are the ultimate dog-with-a-bone poster, aren't you?

Would you rather I shut up and let you have it your way?

The motor industry in Ireland is primarily based on selling and servicing privately owned vehicles.

Riiiiiiighhhtt....

The aviation industry in Ireland is primarily based on a handful of airlines flying paying passengers around the place.

Riiiiighhhttt.....

You know this.

Yes. We all do.
But you still have me confounded as to why that makes an iota of a difference in this debate.

no, again, the government, AFAIK never lowered their take on two seater planes and helicopters with a view to getting us all to into the air.

I fail to see what the size of the aircraft has to do with it.
They lowered their 'take' by abolishing their own monopoly when they permitted free-market competition on air routes in and out of Ireland.

What you are suggesting is analogous to an incentive to travel on buses trains or other forms of mass transit, not privately owned cars.

What I am suggesting is we drop ALL protectionism and have an Free Market, or else quit the pretence and admit that there is no such thing as a 'Free Market'.

Why do you think that businesses being able to buy cheaper company cars would boost growth and employment?

Because (off the top of my head) it means more money available for spending on R&D instead of over priced, over taxed company cars.
How does an Irish company compete on a level playing field with a British company who's fleet (if they must have one) costs twice as much here as there??

Do you think it incentivises business growth and employment to slap huge VRT charges on cars?

Eh, no. Quite the opposite. Are you reading my posts?

Yes it means that 12keuro that would have left the country may now have a chance of been spent in the country instead of going to Germany.

12K??
Piffle!!
I have dozens of friends who each spent upwards of 250K in the last few years buying houses in France, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Bulgaria, Florida....
There are tens of thousands of Irish owned properties abroad.
Why do the Irish Government allow the wealthy to export billions of Irish capital, while hammering the less well off at home with massive VRT charges?

Very few people can either borrow the for cars now or have the cash to buy.

Yeah - so lets make it even more unaffordable by taxing the b'stards till they squeal.

The few that do we either need to encourage not to send out of the country or take the biggest chunk by VRT that we can.

Why not punish the real capital exporters - the wealthy foreign property owners - and drop the punitive tax on Irish motorists?

What employment is incentivised by selling new cars. Jobs are lost as a result. Older cars require more miantenace so more jobs within the country.

Less money in taxes means more money in the economy. A basic.

No because they have a car industry we dont so why would we try to prop up their industry and cost ourselves jobs

We had a monopolised aviation industry.
Opening it to competition caused the loss of many Irish jobs. It undermined Aer Lingus - 'our industry'.
It seems to me that many contributors here think competition is great (cheap air travel!) - but not in THEIR own backyard thanks. They like to be choosy about their monopolies.

Of course its about revenue generation I never said our government gives a fig about the environment. However we have to raise revenue to pay for schools and hospitals. Better to raise revenue in a way that keeps money and jobs in the county and as an unintended side effect benefits the environment and gives us all a better quality of life by reducing car numbers

Raise revenue through appropriate taxes.
Stop interfering in the Open Market. Or else interfere everywhere - and stop the pretence of an 'Open Market'. There is no such thing. Never has been, never will be.

PS Why do the public/Meeja get so hot under the collar about a 10 euro travel tax, when they happily fork out 10K on VRT?

[cats pajamas]

Colada , well we have seen where the free market has gotten us. I am afraid we are coming at this from two very different directions.
You see the market as been all important and access to cheap cars been essential whereas I consider the deleterious effects of unfettered car ownership. As I pointed out in the first post the access easy credit for car ownership helped reinforce the unsustainable planning of inaccessible houses throughout the country. There was a view that we have american rather than european style of car dependency. This assumes that everyone has a car and therefore that location of houses is irrelevant. The planners and politicians took this view over the past twenty years and as they themselve s probably had this lifesyle assumed this was the norm. As a result there was no attempt to put in place a proper spatial strategy and linked public trasnport infrastructure. Mary O'Rourke as minister for transport tried to sabotage LUas as soon as FF got into power in 1997
This led to 2 hour commutes. Those people who were enticeed into this lifestyle by easy credit with the house in Carlow with the Pajero outside now rue the day. They are possibly unemployed cannot afford the petrol for the pajero and are left stranded far from family and friends.
We may come out of this recession three five years and then run smack into peak oil. The poor planning and crack like depency of cars will leave us in the worst possible place to cope with this. Petrol could hit 200 - 300 dollars a barrel even those in employrment may not be able to afford to get to work.
We have to start moving towards the transition town concept of a descent from oil and start breaking the car dependency. A start is encouraging people to consider where they decide to live. Given the excess housing on the market this starts becoming feasible as there is more choice to choose locations which are not car dependant.

[sandar]

Im amazed at how much publicity cukllen gets. There are far more significant bsioness figures in the country.
And while I have advoacetd in the past that the VRT should be increased on imported cars, its not really true either to say that no irish jobs are created.

[Colada]

Colada , well we have seen where the free market has gotten us. I am afraid we are coming at this from two very different directions.
You see the market as been all important and access to cheap cars been essential whereas I consider the deleterious effects of unfettered car ownership.

Cats PJ's, my tongue is stuck firmly in my cheek.
I am against rabid De-Regulation.

However - when the 'Free' or 'Open Marketeers' start crowing about how Aer Lingus 'ripped us off for years' while the very same regulatory systems that created the 'rip-off' still exist and are defended! - I get testy. And I have to ask, where is this 'Open Market', this 'Free Market' they talk of?

The airline industry is now the most (economically) de-regulated in the State. Perhaps in the world.
Meanwhile the other vested interests - while whinging of past 'ripoffs' - firmly resist exposure to competition and deregulation in their particular industry. VRT is a prime example.
Its all just hypocrisy. Admit it...there is no Free Market, and most people really don't want one. So be it. Stop cherry picking areas for deregulation based on politics and vested interest. Want deregulated air fares? Fine - drop VRT too.