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Thread: Paul Williams - Shell to Sea TV3 Docu. - Pre-Election Special ?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankSpeaks View Post
    It has been proven that S2S draw support from paramilitaries.
    Show the proof please. Did anyone else notice the guard covering his id number on the programme? It was in the shot where Maura Harrington was leaning back against the group of guards.

  2. #82
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    The Corrib - why its worse than Holland, Norway or the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by sickofitall View Post
    Exactly. Do you know the merits of the deal? For a realistic look read this. I don't want to duplicate the points that are already made there. If you disagree with any of Oilman's points, quote them and show us why he is wrong....

    At this very moment on Radio 1 some S2S protester is complaining that we don't get the same deal as Norway. The very fact that these protesters are still comparing Norway's and Ireland's oil fields should show you their grasp on the facts.
    Hi, Have to be brief here.

    The oil man says the cost for drilling a well in "deep water" like Corrib is USD 100 millions.

    Cheeky comment if ever there was.

    Corrib is in 355m water with the reservers 11-13000 feet below ground.

    Deep water oil driling is defined as below 1000 feet water. So it scrapes in by its chinny chin chin at 1116.

    But Corrib is not the frontier. USD 50-100 million was the figure given by Siegel of Chevron for drilling in Mexican gulf. Now thats deep water drilling.

    Exploratory wells going down 7000 ft of water and 20000 ft rock before the reserves are reached cost 100 million.

    Drilling in the corrib does not cost USD100 million. Exxon's Dunquin prospect in 5000 feet was expected to cost about USD50 millon - in 5 times the depth and I dont know the rock depth beyond that.

    Average exploration well costs on average $10 million (Oil & Gas UK 2007 Economic Report). Now costs fluctuate wildly based on local conditions but 100 million is not accurate full stop.

    So Oilman is guilty of some exaggeration.

    Secondly I think he misses the point when he talks of comparison with Norway and The Netherlands.

    Norway owns 67% of statoil-Hydo as per march this year. StatoilHydro is the biggest offshore oil and gas company in the world. So looks like the Norwegians are in a good spot and considering their vast pot of money then its clear they are.

    Gas extraction in The Netherlands is conducted by Gas Unie. Gas Unie is 100% owned by the Dutch Govt. Its gas trading division is 50% owned.

    The UK is different as they dont have a state owned company but they do have a Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) applied to profits on individual fields. PRT in the UK is 50%(down from 75%) while allowing nearly 100% write off of exploration costs. Incredibly the irish govt. has the tax at 25%.

    Oilman says that the high failure rate associated with exploring offshore is reason enough to provide a sweetheart deal as an incentive. This is based on a mistaken assumption.

    Drilling a dud or "dry well" is dead money and effectively unrecoverable but does an out lay of 100 million (for 2-3 wells) entitle the company to all money accruing from a discovery irregardless of the size of the discovery. A crazy notion certainly not replicated in other states. For instance the OCtober 2008 valuation of corrib was 9 billioin

    The Irish Govt. could have agreed a deal with Shell saying your expenditure can be recovered at a rate of x over y cubic meters of gas; thereafter a tax of z shall apply on each cubic gas. As Shell has recovered their capital expenditure by that stage then, and only then, are we in a situation comparable to other states and revenue is accruing to the state at a rate at least comparable with the UK. But we went for 25% instead of 50% so thats not what will happen.

    Ireland cannot be compared with the UK, Norway or The Netherlands as each as a superior regime when it comes to the state securing a decent return.
    Last edited by Duth Ealla; 3rd June 2009 at 02:03 PM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trans-Siberian View Post
    ...Would be good to hear an honest and unbiased account of what is really happening there.
    I agree, it would be good to hear about exactly what is going on and the exact details of the deal that Burke & Bertie signed. Given the figures we are talking about (billions and possibly hundreds of billions), I don't know why this issue hasn't been given more focus????

    With Burke and Bertie's track record, you'd have to assume that the deal they signed does not have the best interests of Ireland Inc.

    A close re-examination of the deal would be very interesting.

  4. #84
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    Ye have seen the TV3 version of the situation in Rossport, now please see the activists take on things. Very interestingly today on Pat Kenny show, Patricia Mc Kenna was making the very same points that are outlined, namely the state give away of Irelands resourses.

    this film is made by REVOLT VIDEO, it is entitled THE PLUNDER


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Mtj2fZGGg"]THE PLUNDER[/ame]



    Corrib Gas Project. The company set up to exploit the gas field is a conventure of Shell E&P Ireland (operator 45%), Statoil Exploration (Ireland) Limited (36.5%), and Marathon International Petroleum Hibernia Limited (18.5%). Much of the Irish Labour Party opposes the current project configuration, with party president Michael D. Higgins being the most prominent opponent.

    Full vid found on politube copy on indymedia
    Last edited by dunk; 3rd June 2009 at 03:27 PM.

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    Hartnett and Harrington and others were interviewed by the documentary makers and said their piece.
    The Gardai and shell workers and pro-Shell locals also spoke their piece too.

    If the documentary reflects badly on the Shell to Sea campaign then it is because the protesters come across as intolerant lunatics.

    When Hartnett and Harrington ranted about the supposed illegality of the Shell project without bothering to engage with the arguments of the pro-Shell side who put forward their own arguments of the legality of their activities, they cannot complain if they are protrayed as fanatics.

    It is an accurate depiction of their extreme behaviour and their contempt for due process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swansandtyphus View Post
    Hartnett and Harrington and others were interviewed by the documentary makers and said their piece.
    The Gardai and shell workers and pro-Shell locals also spoke their piece too.

    If the documentary reflects badly on the Shell to Sea campaign then it is because the protesters come across as intolerant lunatics.

    When Hartnett and Harrington ranted about the supposed illegality of the Shell project without bothering to engage with the arguments of the pro-Shell side who put forward their own arguments of the legality of their activities, they cannot complain if they are protrayed as fanatics.

    It is an accurate depiction of their extreme behaviour and their contempt for due process.
    Whatever your opinion of them I am sure you agree that from a commerical perspective this is a poor deal that would have resulted in sackings of those involved if it occurred in the business world.

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    Regarding the bias of the "Irish Media" id direct you to this article from the village

    Irish media failing over Rossport

    The media are taking the side of Goliath in this David v Goliath issue, without verifying their facts. By Miriam Cotton

    “I hate to criticise a multinational, because generally speaking I am a great fan of multinationals (they being the basis of our present prosperity) but I have to say that Shell has been scandalously remiss in not employing someone to bump off a few of these fellows.” [Kevin Myers, Irish Independent, Friday 3rd August 2007]

    In April 2006, life-long native of Erris, Co Mayo, Willie Corduff was honoured to go to California to accept the coveted Goldman Environmental Prize – awarded to him for his efforts to protect his community from environmental and other threats it faces from the proposed Shell/ Statoil/ Marathon Consortium’s Corrib Gas project. The Goldman is awarded annually to just six people from around the world. Here was a big story, a source of national pride, with international significance and full of human and social interest. Yet there was only a relatively low-key murmur about it in the Irish national media.

    Three years later almost to the day Corduff found himself attacked and viciously beaten by a number of men in balaclavas.

    By the early hours of April 23rd, 2009, Corduff had spent much of the previous day trying to prevent the erection (with dubious permission) of fencing for a Shell compound above Glengad Beach in Broadhaven Bay, by sitting under a Shell works truck thus rendering it inoperative. The sandy beach cliff at Glengad is home to a much-loved population of sand martins but it is also the proposed landfall site for the 92km, globally unprecedented, pipeline of highly volatile raw gas - from seven well heads out in the Corrib field. Having hit the landfall at Glengad, Shell say the pressure will, if the project goes ahead, be reduced from the extremely high 345 bar pressure to 144 bar via a “reduction valve” and then travel a further 9 kilometres inland, criss-crossing the exquisitely beautiful Broadhaven Bay, to a proposed refinery at Ballinaboy.

    Following the alleged assault on Corduff, again, the national media has been strangely reticent in key respects. Most reports, at first, relied on Garda statements which focused on a separate allegation that earlier the same night “an armed gang” had frightened off two Shell security men and taken down the fencing – “with paramilitary precision”– but omitting mention of any attack on Corduff or of the beating sustained by his brother-in-law, Pete Lavelle, who says he had tried to help Corduff when he was attacked.

    As other accounts of the incident began to surface from alternative sources, further Garda statements mentioned that an ambulance had been called for Corduff to take him to Mayo General Hospital because he had been “feeling unwell”.

    An RTE report on April 23rd is typical of the media attitude. Brian Dobson in Dublin and Teresa Mannion in Mayo emphasised at every turn the removal of the fencing while noticeably understating what Corduff believes was a serious attempt on his life. His wife, Mary Corduff, has expressed her dismay at how her interview with Mannion was presented – most of her testimony edited out to imply that her husband had been happily sitting under the truck until, as then qualified by Dobson, he was “led by gardaí” to an ambulance.

    According to Corduff, unable to stand or walk, he was carried by paramedics on a stretcher. Corduff says of his attackers “they knelt on the side of my head and neck and on the side of my chest, my airways were constricted and I couldn’t breathe. One of them jumped repeatedly on the inside of one leg. Eventually, my tongue fell out of my mouth and when they saw that, they stopped. I think they thought I was gone.” Corduff says he heard one of them say “Stop now lads, he’s nearly finished”. I could see two gardaí mingling with the people who attacked me who were still wearing the balaclavas but none were arrested.’”

    For the first five or six years of the ten-year-old dispute in north-west Mayo the media reaction was mainly one of indifference. That all changed when, in 2005, four farmers and a retired school principal – ‘The Rossport Five’ - including Willie Corduff, were jailed for refusing to comply with an injunction by Shell requiring them to allow access to their land for works on the project. The story was iconic: five Davids were taking on three colossal Goliaths on points of safety, environmental, social and national economic principle. Support for the men poured in from all over the country.

    After toughing out the negative media onslaught for 94 days, Shell, the majority shareholder in the project, was effectively forced to concede the public relations disaster their injunction had generated - though a face-saving explanation was found for lifting it - a course of action they had been adamant they could not and would not take.

    Shell is to go on trial in the US on May 26th for its activities in the Niger Delta where Ken Saro Wiwa was hanged with eight other men by the Nigerian government following his determined opposition to Shell activities there. In his book about Corrib “The Price of our Souls: Gas, Shell and Ireland”, Michael McCaughan, who often writes for the Irish Times, though not about Rossport, quotes the observations of Kevin O’ Hara, the founder of the Centre for Social and Corporate Responsibility in Port Harcourt, Nigeria about what he saw in Mayo:

    “I pulled up in my car and people jumped out at me and were taking photographs of me and my car and my number plate…I realized, oh boy, here we go again. Shell in Ireland… I was very saddened to see all of the same mistakes, a repeat of what I saw in Nigeria and it was happening in County Mayo, Ireland”.

    Was there a planned, behind the scenes campaign to smear the reputation of the community in response to the popularity of The Rossport Five? In October 2006, almost exactly a year after their release, a large force of Gardaí was sent to Ballinaboy where they began to physically engage with local people participating in the ongoing, non violent direct action to prevent the construction of an onshore gas refinery. A baton charge ensued and many people were injured. Since then, the victims have, in the media narrative, become the aggressors. Community campaigners, outraged by the perceived inversion of truth which the national media mostly repeat without question, can scarcely get their experiences heard, let alone reported. The media now frequently send crime correspondents to cover the story and the Irish Times and Sunday Independent now deploy their “Security Correspondents”. These reporters are invariably obliged to work closely with the Garda as the primary source of their information.

    The community’s protest campaign is said by some to be functioning as a ‘recruiting ground’ for dissident IRA terrorists. The protest in Erris includes people with political views from left to right. Willie Corduff says “this would have been a Fianna Fáil area mostly”. The presence of Sinn Fein supporters among the campaigners is nevertheless frequently used to imply unspecified ‘sinister’ motives. Not to be outdone for invective by Kevin Myers at the Independent, Peter Murtagh – the opinion-column editor of the Irish Times – has made a habit of weighing in with tendentious views on this subject. Here is his attempt to link the Erris protest to the murder of Constable Stephen Carroll. “Asked if the campaign against Shell welcomed the support it gets from Republican Sinn Féin, thought by the PSNI and Garda to be the political wing of the Continuity IRA which murdered Const Stephen Carroll, Ó Mongáin [a protestor] said: “We welcome support from everyone and every quarter, we won’t deny support from anyone.” (Irish Times 16th March 2009).

    Peter Murtagh has now written two opinion pieces of Myersesque vituperation about Rossport, the second of which finishes, “Willie Corduff ‘very badly beaten up’ by Shell’s mercenary thugs? I don’t know because I wasn’t there and I’ve yet to see supporting evidence. But that won’t deter some people pronouncing it as fact”.

    It is an extraordinary journalistic vice that he combines such venom with such factual unawareness. The fact is Mr Corduff says he was beaten up. Photos obtained by Village, taken while he was in hospital and in the days after his release, clearly show the bruising sustained by Willie Corduff all over his head, face and body. Murtagh says, “ I asked Shell to Sea last Wednesday whether Corduff would detail his injuries and publish his hospital records to confirm his medical condition on admission. The request was acknowledged but I have yet to obtain the information”. The information has been sought from the hospital by Mary Corduff, who was asked to submit her request in writing. Maybe Murtagh’s venom was premature in the absence of the facts and in the absence of an attempt to talk to Mr Corduff himself or his family or the hospital. Why does such a reputable journalist, one who enjoyed a stellar career in the Guardian and was editor of the Sunday Tribune before taking his position in the Irish Times, take such an extraordinarily partisan approach for Goliath on this issue?

    The irony is that when it comes to violence and sinister behaviour, it is the government and Shell who have a case to answer according to many Erris people who say they have suffered at the hands of both the Gardaí and IRMS the security firm employed by Shell. There is a lot of publicly available video evidence which appears to support that contention. A former employee of IRMS in Co Mayo, Limerick man Michael Dwyer, was recently shot dead in Bolivia suspected by the Bolivian government of being involved in a mercenary plot to assassinate the country’s president, Evo Morales. Though there does not seem to be a link, it is notable that Bolivia is yet another sovereign, democratic country where private oil and gas interests are doing their utmost to prise ownership of energy resources out of public hands. It is scarcely reported in the mainstream media that two of the four local groups opposing the present configuration of the project, Pobal Chill Chomain and Pobal Le Cheile (Shell to Sea and The Rossport Solidarity Camp being the other two), have put forward a considered, practical and viable alternative that would permit Shell to bring the gas ashore at Glinsk - away from homes and from the seriously endangered drinking water supply at Carrowmore Lake and from the special areas of conservation threatened with destruction by the current plan. Shell has rejected this compromise claiming that cliff faces at the alternative site are an insuperable obstacle. This is an industry that can extract oil from 20K feet below the sea bed in the Shenzi field off the coast of Louisiana.

    Nevertheless, it is still the community who are depicted by Shell and their many media supporters of being difficult and uncompromising because they decline ‘discussions’ which require them to accept much of the Consortium’s plan as a foregone conclusion before those so called discussions can even begin.

    On hearing of the attack on Corduff, officers of the Goldman Environmental Prize in California were seriously alarmed. Recipients of the prize from all over the world have in recent days written to President Mary MacAleese and Taoiseach Brian Cowen protesting the treatment of Corduff and urging the Irish government to reconsider the foreign owned consortium’s plans for Corrib Gas. Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa has also issued a statement in support of Corduff and called for an independent international inquiry into the events of 23rd April and the project as a whole. Support has come too from writers Colm Toibín and Anne Enright.

    The results of a Google search on the internet show that at the time of writing, aside from regional reports from the Irish Times’ Western Correspondent, Lorna Siggins – who has been consistently balanced in her reporting throughout this saga - there has been no other mention of these significant international developments in our national media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiannafailure View Post
    I asked my gov TD a written question on this 18 months ago with monthly reminders and still no answer get real
    Reading your post I can understand why.
    The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecoguy View Post
    Yeah, by a failed ex-FF councillor who's main role in Erris is as the local village idiot in Bangor - hardly a reliable source for such stats

    PS Whats even sadder is that you beleived it
    At the risk of unleashing further character assassination, I simply must ask you to clarify the basis for your assertion that I 'believe' what the ex FF councillor said ?

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    A second film about the story of Rossport, why people feel they are not being listened to by the government, how there is already unhealthy changes and how in Nigeria a similar story was played out is THOSE WHO DANCE

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sfNGwIaNIg"]THOSE WHO DANCE[/ame]

    'Those Who Dance' tells the story of a small community in the west of Ireland, and their resistance to Shell's plans to build a high-pressure gas pipeline and processing terminal on their land. It compares their situation to that of the Ogoni people of the Niger Delta, where Ken Saro-Wiwa and thousands of others died because of their non-violent opposition to Shell's activities. The film challenges viewers to consider the global impact of the petroleum industry and the inescapable reality of climate change. Questioning our dependence on fossil fuels, it is an impassioned call to embrace sustainable energy.
    from the shell to sea website


    As an eco designer and activist I find it so frustrating in Ireland how so little people are aware of the facts and with that that so few join in solidarity with the community of Rossport. This is but 1 image of people in london using NON VIOLENT direct action to raise awareness and assist.

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