Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[Service charge]

Isn't this what Portugal is doing right now. There was a detailed article in the FT a few weeks ago. They're building wind farms and dams.

So once again we're are behind the pack.

[Geckko]

Isn't this what Portugal is doing right now. There was a detailed article in the FT a few weeks ago. They're building wind farms and dams.

So once again we're are behind the pack.

Jesus, haven't people been cured of ladder mania here yet?

[Guinnesslad]

Hope it is legitimate, and I hope it happens.

[Service charge]

Geckko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Service charge
Isn't this what Portugal is doing right now. There was a detailed article in the FT a few weeks ago. They're building wind farms and dams.

So once again we're are behind the pack.

Jesus, haven't people been cured of ladder mania here yet?

It's nothing to do with mania. If we are to profit from green energy we need to be a leader not a follower. Portugal is making waves (boom boom) in this sector and is attracting investment as a reward.

[Geckko]

It's nothing to do with mania. If we are to profit from green energy we need to be a leader not a follower. Portugal is making waves (boom boom) in this sector and is attracting investment as a reward.

But there is nothing to profit, everything to lose.

It is one of the most expensive ways to generate a reliable electricity supply.... get it??

[Rufty]

The idea , or rather the hope behind the idea is great.
It ticks all the right boxes in theory.

In practice though they have come at this not too unlike Steorn did.
So a very healthy dose of skepticism is needed.

Until we see a major politician championing it and some reasonable name from the engineering world endorsing the idea then it remains in the realm of steorn like PR.

All i've seen so far is a punter on radio claiming lots of stuff and a website with NOTHING specific (not even proper contact details). THe 'team' of professionals gives nothing away either.

Don't get me wrong. I would love this idea to be legit and followed through on.
At the same time we shouldn't be getting all misty eyed and hopeful when we've been shown nothing concrete!!

I'd like people to stop comparing this to Steorn. There is no similarity between the two. Streorn said they had an energy production idea that, on the face of it, broke the laws of physics. This lot however are suggesting a tried and tested system. J-power are already doing this in Okinawa, Japan (to a smaller scale though if memory serves me well). The system is very practical and is taught at undergrad level engineering. I remember my professor in final year remarking that it, by that stage, could only be a matter of time before we started using these systems as they made perfect sense.

As for the wind energy not being cost effective, that's a half truth. Up until recently the systems were highly underdeveloped but over the past 10 years huge research has gone into it and new systems and practices have been developed to over come many problems. "Blowing too hard" as one person mentioned earlier is a non-issue. I presume they are referring to times when the wind speed is at a certain frequency that it causes resonance of the blades which in turn damage the turbine mechanism. Any wind speed higher or lower will allow their continued operation. This can be over come by having two types of wind turbine on a single wind farm meaning that in the event of one set having to be turned off, the other set can continue to function, the reservoir can then take over any additional need on the system.

Wave power is not as viable yet as many people believe. It's a very underdeveloped technology that requires huge amounts of money to be thrown into R&D before it becomes another alternative.

As for this proposal.....I'm not sure if it will make us independent or an exporter of energy but two things are for sure.

1) It WILL decrease the amount of fossil fuels we as a nation import. This will save the taxpayer money.

2) It WILL create many much needed jobs in a sector that has been badly hit by the economic slump. These jobs would also be based in the west, an area that needs jobs more urgently than the east.

We have a real opportunity to be world leaders here. I hope that the sceptics don't ruin it. Fair play to the spirit crowd however for finally getting the country talking about the obvious abundant energy sources that we as a nation are not using.

Regards,
Rufty BE(Civil) MIEI

[droghedasouth]

Thats the point - *is* it economical?

SpiritofSteorn (I hope that I am proved wrong) need to produce a detailed prospectus - this is a much less trusting country than 5 years ago...

BTW the Steorn website Steorn - Free, Clean and Constant Energy is still online despite never delivering on *any* of their promised "free, clean and constant energy".

the chances are very good that it will be economical.
Why?

Basically construction cost is almost completely independent of the height difference between the sea and the reservoir.

The capacity/output is however directly related to the height difference.

So as there is a very good height difference available (150 metres or 500 feet), the chances are very good that it will prove economical when detailed costings are done.

Drogheda South B.E.(Civil), M.Eng.Sc., M.B.A.

[droghedasouth]

But there is nothing to profit, everything to lose.

It is one of the most expensive ways to generate a reliable electricity supply.... get it??

You get reliability by inroducing storage into the system.... get it??

Drogheda South B.E.(Civil), M.Eng.Sc., M.B.A.

[Geckko]

I'd like people to stop comparing this to Steorn. There is no similarity between the two. Streorn said they had an energy production idea that, on the face of it, broke the laws of physics. This lot however are suggesting a tried and tested system. J-power are already doing this in Okinawa, Japan (to a smaller scale though if memory serves me well). The system is very practical and is taught at undergrad level engineering. I remember my professor in final year remarking that it, by that stage, could only be a matter of time before we started using these systems as they made perfect sense.

As for the wind energy not being cost effective, that's a half truth. Up until recently the systems were highly underdeveloped but over the past 10 years huge research has gone into it and new systems and practices have been developed to over come many problems. "Blowing too hard" as one person mentioned earlier is a non-issue. I presume they are referring to times when the wind speed is at a certain frequency that it causes resonance of the blades which in turn damage the turbine mechanism. Any wind speed higher or lower will allow their continued operation. This can be over come by having two types of wind turbine on a single wind farm meaning that in the event of one set having to be turned off, the other set can continue to function, the reservoir can then take over any additional need on the system.

Wave power is not as viable yet as many people believe. It's a very underdeveloped technology that requires huge amounts of money to be thrown into R&D before it becomes another alternative.

As for this proposal.....I'm not sure if it will make us independent or an exporter of energy but two things are for sure.

1) It WILL decrease the amount of fossil fuels we as a nation import. This will save the taxpayer money.

2) It WILL create many much needed jobs in a sector that has been badly hit by the economic slump. These jobs would also be based in the west, an area that needs jobs more urgently than the east.

We have a real opportunity to be world leaders here. I hope that the sceptics don't ruin it. Fair play to the spirit crowd however for finally getting the country talking about the obvious abundant energy sources that we as a nation are not using.

Regards,
Rufty BE(Civil) MIEI

And I hope the gombeens don't override logic and common sense.

There is absolutely nothing stopping ESB from doing this today. Nothing.

Why don't they? Because it doesn't make economic sense. The Royal Academy of Engineering came out with a pretty damning appraisal of the cost effectiveness of wind farms in practice. About twice the cost.

Your engineering qualifications leave you badly positioned to judge what is good or not from a policy perspecitve. You naive statments about "generating jobs" "reducing imports" etc. are classics.

[cactusflower]

No, I don't think you are listening. Nor are you reading.

Wind generation is just too expensive. Layering on a storage facility of such scale mititgates against one of the reasons why wind power is too expensive, but not all and not without layer additonal cost on top.

The energy regulator themselves found that it is not a viable economic alternative under preseent technology.

If you want to double you electricity bills, then fine. But count me out.

If this made any sense, they would be doing it, not pleading for soft money, government assitance etc. It ranks up there with that ludicrous CIF lobbied infrastructure scheme.

This nation has to get over this gombeenism.

Well they're doing it in Spain and Denmark. Do they have a different kind of calculator to us?

What do you think the break-even oil and gas price is for wind energy? Given peak oil and the expanding global demand, what do you think oil and gas prices will be like in ten year's time?

There are efficiencies of design being made all the time in wind energy.