Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[monodrone]

I thought I better spell this out to the scientifically illiterate. While Watts are a measure of power, power is not something that can be stored; it is a rate of work.

Energy can be stored and is measured in Watts per hour (or Kw hours etc.)

Close, but not quite there. It's a strange little freak of a unit.

Energy is measured in Joules
Power is measured in Joules per second (or Watts)
1 Watt is equal to a device/generator that requires/produces 1 joule every second

kW is 1,000 Watts or 1,000 Joules per second

kWh is the unit used on a domestic energy bill
it is the energy needed to power a 1kW device for an hour
likewise a 1kW generator will produce 1kWh in an hour (at full efficiency and capacity)

It's a little snappier and more useful for end users to use rather than 3600 kJ

What does one kWh do? | ESB Customer Supply

sparkey
even if it is €145 per MWh
that works out at 15c a kWh. which is less than the current ESB rate even before you consider standing charges.

PS i've no idea where that figure came from and what it does or doesn't account for

[Geckko]

Close, but not quite there

[riven]

Graham Brennan, program manager for renewable-energy research and development at Sustainable Energy Ireland, the government's green-technology arm, said in an interview in SEI's Dublin offices. The peak occurred last December, at 4,907 megawatts.

Studies show...........

On the basis of this I went to both wind energy journals (no surprise that SEI publications are non-existant in these, I only checked the highest rated ones) and to the SEI website. I then went looking for the figures and studies that backed up Mr. Brennan's claims.

These Dios are the studies you should be looking for not unreferenced fluff from newspapers when constructing a scientific arguement.

Now I have given you a reference to one such report and the location of others and I still stand by my claim that

since SEI reports did not taken into account availability and since they claim that a realistic target of 5000MW is attainable from wind, wind generated electricity would not be able to meet the quoted peak demand of just over 4900MW.

Furthermore another item that was neglected in the study is the transmission losses associated with transporting wind electricity to the plug.

P.s. It would appear that I need a lesson in spelling.

[fiannafailure]

Err not to be pushy but back to my last post.

Between you and SOI we now have three seperate prices per MW hour

€148, 5 cent and €55

Which is it.

€148 is apparently mentioned somewhere on S of I website, I didn't bother looking as it is a non runner unless it is a retail price, and I have no interest in it unless it is retail

5c = €50 per MW is the target set by S of I for wholesale wind power at the end of 5 years activity. And is an informed target, but if S of I can only manage to get it to €70/ Mw, I would be happy.

€55 is the average off peak european wholesale price, the peak price is I believe €85

Is clarity restored

[fiannafailure]

Sparkey

I posted

I am off to work, but I will leave a last post to allow geckko have a nightmare,

A I GW/Hr storage unit will increase the economic value of the seawater contained therein to approx €55,000 which will stay in this country as opposed to giving it to some other energy exporter, based on average european off peak prices. And the nightmare comes from the amount of times it could be filled in a year.

Sweet dreams Geckko

You replied

Lets see 1 GW hour is worth €55,000

so 1 MW hour is worth €55

So now we have 5 sents, €148 and (now) €55

When I ask you for the figure isn't avialable, but when someone else asks a different question either you or SOI seem able to come up with a figure at the drop of a hat. (unfortunatly completely different figures.)

Well which one (if any) is it :-8

Explanation in my above post, but you reminded me, I have to add S of i profit to the value of the water in the reservoir, say 2 cents Kw/Hr the water is worth €70,000. Sorry again Geckko. ha ha ha

[riven]

Sparkey

Explanation in my above post, but you reminded me, I have to add S of i profit to the value of the water in the reservoir,

Profit value of the water?

If anything using sea water or salt water will make the installation more expensive as the equipment will need to be chloride resistance. Normal or carbon steel (cheap) will be unsuitable due to its nickel content.

At least stainless steel 316L would be required though others are possible; all still more expensive than carbon steel.

So how is the salt water use going to end up in a profit?

[fiannafailure]

Profit value of the water?

If anything using sea water or salt water will make the installation more expensive as the equipment will need to be chloride resistance. Normal or carbon steel (cheap) will be unsuitable due to its nickel content.

At least stainless steel 316L would be required though others are possible; all still more expensive than carbon steel.

So how is the salt water use going to end up in a profit?

J power were the only paid consultants employed by S of I, because their expertise and experience was invaluable and they were not likely to react to a call of irish patriotism


http://www.jpower.co.jp/english/inte...as_japan24.pdf

[riven]

J power were the only paid consultants employed by S of I, because their expertise and experience was invaluable and they were not likely to react to a call of irish patriotism


http://www.jpower.co.jp/english/inte...as_japan24.pdf

So you still have not explained let alone justified the profit value of water.

Indeed you have not refuted my claim either. For a quick overview of the plant you quote try
http://www.hitachi.com/rev/1998/revoct98/r4_108.pdf
You can see that the steel is classified as stainless though what grade is not known.

[fiannafailure]

So you still have not explained let alone justified the profit value of water.

Indeed you have not refuted my claim either. For a quick overview of the plant you quote try
http://www.hitachi.com/rev/1998/revoct98/r4_108.pdf
You can see that the steel is classified as stainless though what grade is not known.

Riven,
I would have thought you could have seen the irony in my original post on the subject, my point was that we can make our own "oil" instead of importing the real stuff and making the Saudi's even richer and Ireland poorer. Nothing miraculous like turning water into wine, merely off the shelf engineering

And you cant expect to discuss ongoing commercial negotiations, other than to state the plant I provided the link for is profitable.

[riven]

http://stk4.outbox.ativism.pt/up/fic...2751118-51.pdf

Interesting overview of PS