Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[Dios]

The I was making is that there is debate as to how green wind power actually is, not how visually impairing it is.

To which the response was accurate, unless you believe that environmental impacts are isolated to planning permission applications. Which possibly you do.

On one had you admit that the reservoirs are to ensure security of supply but on the other you want to measure output from the wind-farms not the reservoirs.

That was in response to Geckko's badly thought out analysis, not to the seperate question which is below:

You also want to use the reservoirs to meet peak demand which is not ensuring security of supply and actually compromises security of supply but draining the reserves.

Again, what security of supply do you have if you can't use the reservoirs (which refill once limited peak demand drops) to keep the lights on? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

It makes me question your understanding of what is being discussed.

Does it indeed. I have observed recently that there is a certain kind of individual that delights in the belief that they are asking the hard questions that nobody else can ask, succeeding mostly in alienating everyone, even the people who could honestly answer their questions, and honestly want to, with their vapid hysterics, such as stalking others around various forums.

What does all this have to do with this discussion?

Who knows?

[riven]

Actually availability or load factors are between 25% and 35% depending on location and who you believe.

I was talking about availability which is the amount of time per year (365 days) that a unit is available for operation.

Things that make availability are stoppages due to maintenance and overall and equipment failure.

[fiannafailure]

I am off to work, but I will leave a last post to allow geckko have a nightmare,

A I GW/Hr storage unit will increase the economic value of the seawater contained therein to approx €55,000 which will stay in this country as opposed to giving it to some other energy exporter, based on average european off peak prices. And the nightmare comes from the amount of times it could be filled in a year.

Sweet dreams Geckko

[Dios]

I was talking about availability which is the amount of time per year (365 days) that a unit is available for operation.

Things that make availability are stoppages due to maintenance and overall and equipment failure.

I'd rather have a thousand turbines that might fail individually, than one single point of failure in a power station. And in any case...

Very extensive statistics show that the best turbine manufacturers consistently achieve availability factors above 98 per cent, i.e. the machines are ready to run more than 98 per cent of the time. Total energy output is generally affected less than 2 per cent, since wind turbines are never serviced during high winds.

Such a high degree of reliability is remarkable, compared to other types of machinery, including other electricity generating technologies. The availability factor is therefore usually ignored when doing economic calculations, since other uncertainties (e.g. wind variability) are far larger.

[riven]

No, that's deliverable power from onshore turbines in areas that meet a variety of criteria, not installed power.

Go and read the report. Availability was not taken into account.

Its mildly amusing to see the detractors trying to twist it every which way, despite the very clear message of the article.

More funny is the inability of people to follow up a quoted report.

Which is what SoI is trying to deal with.

In am unrealistic fashion by saying that 5 years is the timeline for energy independence the former of which is not possible at this stage according to their own figures as calculated by multiple users and the latter of which is untrue,

Okay, you live beside a coal fired plant, I'll go live beside a wind turbine. There is no real debate on the environmental impact beyond people afraid it might upset their property value because of the views.

No debate on environmental impact? Here is a question. The flooding of a u vally (probably grassland) will reduce the amount of CO2 uptake if nothing else. Of course there is also the wildlife habitational aspect without even getting into more mundane concerns such as valley sealing.

[Dios]

Go and read the report. Availability was not taken into account.

And now you know why, if you take a look at the post above yours.

More funny is the inability of people to follow up a quoted report.

And funniest is the inability of people to actually read it in the first place.

In am unrealistic fashion by saying that 5 years is the timeline for energy independence the former of which is not possible at this stage according to their own figures as calculated by multiple users and the latter of which is untrue,

Most of the concerns were answered, we're still waiting for respones on the last one or two, and some of your multiple calculations were shown to be baldly wrong.

No debate on environmental impact? Here is a question. The flooding of a u vally (probably grassland) will reduce the amount of CO2 uptake if nothing else. Of course there is also the wildlife habitational aspect without even getting into more mundane concerns such as valley sealing.

That was in reference to wind turbines as it turns out.

[sparkey321]

To which the response was accurate, unless you believe that environmental impacts are isolated to planning permission applications. Which possibly you do.

No enviromental impact I was reffering to was emmisions durign construction of turnines, power used during construction of turnines, same for materials used and their have been serious concerns regarding the carbon emmission resulting from their placement in bogs.

Look it up

That was in response to Geckko's badly thought out analysis, not to the seperate question which is below:

Again, what security of supply do you have if you can't use the reservoirs (which refill once limited peak demand drops) to keep the lights on? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

And indeed he has a point. Once you failed to address.

Does it indeed. I have observed recently that there is a certain kind of individual that delights in the belief that they are asking the hard questions that nobody else can ask, succeeding mostly in alienating everyone, even the people who could honestly answer their questions, and honestly want to, with their vapid hysterics, such as stalking others around various forums.

What does all this have to do with this discussion?

Who knows?

And i have observed recently a group of people who will grab onto a project as the solution to all their ills despite it having no costings, no figures, and damn all information of any sort. This same group of people also seem incapable of any form of discussion that involves facts.

[riven]

www.windaction.org | E.ON Netz Wind Report 2005

E.ON 2005 report. Interesting reading.

[sparkey321]

I am off to work, but I will leave a last post to allow geckko have a nightmare,

A I GW/Hr storage unit will increase the economic value of the seawater contained therein to approx €55,000 which will stay in this country as opposed to giving it to some other energy exporter, based on average european off peak prices. And the nightmare comes from the amount of times it could be filled in a year.

Sweet dreams Geckko

Lets see 1 GW hour is worth €55,000

so 1 MW hour is worth €55

So now we have 5 sents, €148 and (now) €55

When I ask you for the figure isn't avialable, but when someone else asks a different question either you or SOI seem able to come up with a figure at the drop of a hat. (unfortunatly completely different figures.)

Well which one (if any) is it :-8

[sparkey321]

I was talking about availability which is the amount of time per year (365 days) that a unit is available for operation.

Things that make availability are stoppages due to maintenance and overall and equipment failure.

OK. Sorry my misunderstanding.