Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[fiannafailure]

That is irrelevant.

They quote annual revenues of 2.6 billion once up and running with 2 reservoirs providing 2 GW of power. I am not looking at payback or depreciation or even profit margins.
They quote annual revenue of 2.6 billion.
They quote 2GW output.

All the figures are from the proposal, I am making no assumptions or providing any figures, its all based on SOI figures from the presentation.

That's what I am asking you to clarify.
Are the figures correct for projected revenue ?
Are they based on wholesale or retail prices ?
What would the charge from Eirgrid be to distribute this ?

You seem to be of the opinion that S of I is a multinational with a strategy thought out years in advance and used to subdue entire nations and with a financial strategy based solely on existing engineering and economic methods.
It is not.
It is informed by people who work in all facets of the energy industry, taking account of the existing problems and producing an entirely new way to deal with Irelands energy, economic and employment problems, the three E's. And any reference to existing cost structures are redundant when analysing the effects of the project.
And figures for annual revenue are notional at present, because the scope of the project has not been finalised.

[Geckko]

And hey, we are living in the country probably best positioned on earth for wind power, so we do indeed have higher efficiencies than normal. Geckko you've spent most of the thread and every other thread that mentions wind power running it down, with nary a link nor reference to back up a single word you have said, flying in the face of many billions of euros invested in the energies worldwide by people who know a great deal more than you about energy production, and are in a much worse position windwise. I'd say the only one living in fantasy land is yourself. Have you remembered the name of the budgie that was bludgeoned by a wind turbine yet?

Until you start providing said links and references, into the troll box you shall go.

Trolls lie, as you do:

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1676620

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1723009

Into the lier box you go, lier. Let's keep this specific reply fesh for new readers to see what a lier you are.

ETA:

more proof that you are a lier, lier.

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1707371

[Dios]

The old "Ireland is different" hypothesis at work again.

What does the, quite extensive and priximate, UK wind generation operate at?

Answer: Nothing like 35%. More like 25%.

You people are like cultish religious fanatics.

You keep fighting that good fight, baby. Meanwhile, reality begs to differ.

Ireland is one of the best locations in Europe for wind power as it is situated on the Western edge of Europe and is exposed to high winds from the Atlantic Ocean and Irish Sea. Wind power utility factors tend to be higher in Ireland than anywhere else.

[sparkey321]

You seem to be of the opinion that S of I is a multinational with a strategy thought out years in advance and used to subdue entire nations and with a financial strategy based solely on existing engineering and economic methods.
It is not.
It is informed by people who work in all facets of the energy industry, taking account of the existing problems and producing an entirely new way to deal with Irelands energy, economic and employment problems, the three E's. And any reference to existing cost structures are redundant when analysing the effects of the project.
And figures for annual revenue are notional at present, because the scope of the project has not been finalised.

Hang on a minute.

SOI used the figures not me. You asked me to review the presentation and insinuated the answers were there. They quoted the figures...

Annual revenues of 2.6 billion from 2GW of output.

They are two facts you cannot deny supplied by SOI in their presentation.

Simple math makes that €148 per MW hour.

I asked you is the figures were correct and instead of giving me an answer you go on a rant.

So I ask again. Are the figures correct or am I missing something ?

You now say that 2.6 billion is a notional figure. SOI are looking to raise finance. The two most important questions they will be asked, indeed the first questions they will be asked are projected revenues and projected margin (both Gross and Nett).

I would not dream of asking you for the margin all I am asking is to confirm revenue,

[Dios]

Trolls lie, as you do:

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1676620

Wow, you have graduated to linking to websites now! Well done, lets have an excerpt from the front page of that Spanish site there...

Codes that cost lives
Already in the first installment of the Pirates of the Caribbean, there are constant references to a mysterious code that governs, if that is possible, the conduct of the pirates. But it is the third in which finally shows the thick book that gives you support, and discover where their custodian, which happens to be the father of Jack Sparrow.

Mmm, legitimate. I'm loving the rest of the far right stories in there as well.

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1723009

Oh okay, so you might enlighten us as to why the UK has 20GW of wind power they want to install by 2020?

Into the lier box you go, lier. Let's keep this specific reply fesh for new readers to see what a lier you are.

I find it sadly ironic that you can't even spell the word.

[sparkey321]

Trolls lie, as you do:

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1676620

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1723009

Into the lier box you go, lier. Let's keep this specific reply fesh for new readers to see what a lier you are.

ETA:

more proof that you are a lier, lier.

http://www.politics.ie/environment/6...ml#post1707371

Geckko

While I agree with your figures and statements regarding wind power you have to admit the addition of a working pumped storage facility to ensure security of supply would negate alto of these issues.

Lets for the moment assume that this can be achieved and work from there.

SOI were kind enough to provide us with figures lets concentrate on them for the moment and look at the engineering separately.

[Geckko]

You keep fighting that good fight, baby. Meanwhile, reality begs to differ.

Read the links I provided, lier.

Not even Eirgrid claim 35% load factor to date and you are claiming that it will increase as you expand from the best sites down.

What a lier.

[Dios]

Read the links I provided, lier.

Not even Eirgrid claim 35% load factor to date and you are claiming that it will increase as you expand from the best sites down.

Oh I did. I even translated some of them into English.

What a lier.

/facepalm

[Dios]

You cannot combine the two. The entire reason for the reservoirs is to ensure security of supply. Wind power fluctuates and you cannot assume to get max output (or any output for that matter) at peak times. The only true (ie secure) output is that from the reservoirs.

Energy is energy, no reason why you can't combine the two. The low price for random immediacy is actually an advantage on the domestic market, economically speaking.

I agree I was given some information I didn't have before but they basically confirmed what I had assumed (except the costings which is much lower than I had anticipated) and did clear up a few matters.

Lets keep an eye on the forum over there and see what comes up.

15 days becalmed does not sound too far out but what about low wind ? High wind ? There is a finite band at which power can be generated above or below that band has the same effect as becalmed. You will have weeks on end when output will be low.

Well, I don't have exact figures on that as of yet, but I've lived most of my life on the west coast, and the wind is very much a constant companion here. I am reasonably confident that the engineers have their finger more or less on the button, although I am open to correction. In any case, another reservoir isn't out of the question. My own back of the envelope figures for comfortable energy independence are more like €25 billion, still only 8 years energy imports for the purposes of electricity genertation (from the SoI presentation).

Inter-connector to buy power from where ? If you look at the proposal Europe will need to buy power from us not the other way around.

Yes but the devil is in the details. The ratio of days we buy power as opposed to selling power would be fairly high.

As for our current generation capacity. If SOI are providing cheap power for 320 days a year then how can our existing plant be kept manned and ready to generate (which the vast majority of our capacity is not suitable for IE it cannot be turned on and off or varied at short notice). I we were to do that then the cost of this would have to be added to electricity prices.

Thats one of the selling points! The reservoirs give us plenty of time to get the existing plants fired up, as opposed to keeping them warm all the time. Its a thick layer of insulation.

[Geckko]

Geckko

While I agree with your figures and statements regarding wind power you have to admit the addition of a working pumped storage facility to ensure security of supply would negate alto of these issues.

Lets for the moment assume that this can be achieved and work from there.

SOI were kind enough to provide us with figures lets concentrate on them for the moment and look at the engineering separately.

Go back in the thread and read the numbers.

You would need the most massive amount of windfarms plus massive storage and EVEN THEN could face blackout.

And for the pricelege you would probably double the cost of electricity.

If this could do a fraction of what is claimed it would be happening already.

Come back when the technology brings down the cost or the price of standard generating technologies trebles.

I am happy for you guys to bounce this between yourselves till the cows come home. It doesn't have any economic justification so it is a dead duck and your interactions are merely amount to discussing fairies and pin heads

But my concern is always that some stupid politician will pick it up and it will end up costing me dearly.