Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[sparkey321]

WRONG.

Thermal plants like Moneypoint have to be kept ticking over - not running all the time at full blast.

Do you know the difference in fuel consumption on "tick over" and "full blast" ?

Minimal.

[sparkey321]

Ok, you have no ideas for solutions beyond saying "The plan is not feasible." Ok, fine, sure.
Ah well.

As for fuel cells, they cost more in that they require breakdown of water to Hydrogen and Oxygen. What powers that requirement? Some of the materials needed for the cell itself are quite toxic, by the way. There's also the fact that hydrogen can migrate through metal quite easily leading to losses.

'Ah shure, we're grand as we are, no need for anything 'new' to be bothering with.'
I suppose you'll be putting in objections to any planning on this?

So you would promote investing billions in an unproven concept ?? A concept I might add that many experts have looked at and laughed at. Even the Green party are distancing themselves.

I am suggesting investing in research not spending billions on an up proven concept that does not hold water.

[Geckko]

Strawman. They aren't workable due to safety problems. Ever try slamming on the brakes on a hovercraft? Ever pilot one on a sideways slope?

As opposed to wind generation which are unworkable commercially because of a combination of cost and efficiency....

[joel]

So you would promote investing billions in an unproven concept ?? A concept I might add that many experts have looked at and laughed at. Even the Green party are distancing themselves.

I am suggesting investing in research not spending billions on an up proven concept that does not hold water.

How come it works in Japan?

[sparkey321]

Compared to you? Not that it make one bean of difference to someone who doesn''t think, but the bloody idea ALREADY WORKS! - its just a matter of up-scaling it.

There is no question that wind turbines will develop power. There is also no question that they are only 20% efficient (even spirit of Ireland quote 30%) so you will only get on average 20 to 30% of the available capacity.

No one doubts pumped hydro works On a small scale.

I have no doubt what so ever that it achievable to generate 5Gw of power using wind (by erecting 25GW of capacity.

I also have no doubt that it possible to build reservoirs large enough to store sufficient water to act as a backup. None what so ever.

I do however serious doubt it could be done for 10 billion of ever 100 billion or even 200 billion.

I also have serious issues with the amount of damage that 25GW worth of wind turbines will do to the Irish landscape. I also have serious concerns what the impact of building 25GW in wind turbines will have on the environment let alone the reservoirs.

Spirit of Ireland admit of their forums that it will involve planting the entire length of the west coast 1 mile deep with wind turbines. Imagine a 1 mild thick swath of wind turbines from Cork to Donegal right through eh most scenic and environmentally delicate landscapes in Ireland.

Then you have the grid that they are proposing to build to support this. That right a new grid with high voltage lines all along the West Coast. I suppose we could bury it for another say 50 billion.

But sure its Green just do it..............

[sparkey321]

If you read all of this thread, you would have seen that I state that the plan isn't big enough. That's its main flaw.

For one with electrical engineering knowledge, you're being exceptionally dense. It's a storage system. It uses off-peak surplus to fill "the battery" which can be used when demand exceeds supply above the norm. Peak times here and elsewhere are not relevant with stored energy systems.

You keep saying "will not work" but I haven't seen you explain clearly why you make that claim. Is it physically impossible?

When you wander off into fairytales about "magic beans", you show that you can't put forward a clear explanation of your position. Those percentages are not an explanation of why this system "will not work". That word "will" is a definitive which you cannot prove.

Though that mention of magic did give me a laugh when I recalled a quote "any technology sufficiently advanced will appear as magical".

I have explained over and over again that it is not feasible. Not that its not physically possible

There is no point in arguing with someone who refuses to listen.

For the last time. I know its a storage system. I have explained that there will not be enough extra capacity at off peak times to fill the reservoirs it will require the construction of extra wind turbines. You need to put something in to get something out and with losses you will need to put in almost twice what you take out.

To generate the amount of power required is not impossible. far from it. But the cost and environmental impact make it completely unworkable.

[sparkey321]

How come it works in Japan?

Japan is small potatoes and it demonstrates that sea water pumped Hydro works.

It has a capacity of 30MW.



Spirit of Ireland are talking about 4000MW.. See the difference.

[maxthedog]

A wind turbine needs 2.5mph wind to work and it has to be shut down for safety reasons when wind exceeds 25mph. That is why it is important that rather than show a 20 year old map with average yearly wind. We need at least a day by day break down.

Ireland does not enjoy a katatcic wind e.g like the mistral. We have down days and strong gales, and all points in between. A lot of which would be useless for the operation of turbines. I would have no problem with 20% energy goals. But anything over that and considering the cost. I need more than 10mins on Pat Kenny and a vague website.

Also I still have seen no breakdown of the storage facility. Would be grateful if someone could post a link.

At the moment we claim a 10% wind energy. Considering we have little or no heavy industry, Waterford glass with large kilns etc. It might not be a proud boast.

[myksav]

Ok, you detractors. We'll not bother. Let's stick with the good old fossil fueled stations we have that cost for fuel and will cost even more in the future.

Typical fecking oirish. What are ye, the last remnants of the dinosaurs? Afraid of even old innovation.

sparkey. You posted

but do we need to invest billions in an idea that will not work...

'Will not work' is a definitive declaration. Which is contradicted by the fact that Japan has a working pumped storage system already in place.

Toshiba seem well interested in the technology and Toshiba isn't in the market for fairytales.

[sparkey321]

Ok, you detractors. We'll not bother. Let's stick with the good old fossil fueled stations we have that cost for fuel and will cost even more in the future.

Typical fecking oirish. What are ye, the last remnants of the dinosaurs? Afraid of even old innovation.

sparkey. You posted 'Will not work' is a definitive declaration. Which is contradicted by the fact that Japan has a working pumped storage system already in place.

Toshiba seem well interested in the technology and Toshiba isn't in the market for fairytales.

Are you stupid or just green ? Sure you don't want to buy my magic beans ? Or would you rather stick with the good old fossil fueled stations we have that cost for fuel and will cost even more in the future.

Or are you typical oirish, the last remnants of the dinosaurs ? Afraid of a little innovation ?

You argument is equally valid for them.

For the last time. Pumped storage does work. I have never ever said it does not. Japan is a 30MW plant Spirit of Ireland is talking about 4000MW. The Japanese system is not designed to provide power to the entire country. It is not the sole backup to windpower. Its like looking at a model of the space shuttle and deciding you could build the real thing.

Its not like scaling up a shirt from small to extra large.

If you actually bothered to read my posts you would see why I think the idea wont work or do you think the entire west coast from Cork to Donegal should be covered in a strip of wind turbines 1 mile thick ? That's not my figures by the way that's Spirit of Ireland's I think it will take even more. Guess whats in those areas. The cliffs of Moher, The Burren. Giants causeway, Dingle peninsula. I could go on. Is it green to dig all those areas up to put down windmills ? How about overhead 60KVA power cables strung across these areas ?
Do you think all that could be done for 10 billion ? or 100 billion ? or even 200 Billion. How much did it cost to put down a bit of light rail in Dublin ?

Take off those green tinted glasses and look at this objectively.

Ever see that episode of the Simpson's with the mono rail ?