Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[myksav]

Sweet demons above and below, there is a shot of ignorance being displayed on this thread among the detractors of this idea.
So many of you are caught up in the wind not blowing tripe. The idea is a Stored Energy System.

Here's a nice simple example for you.
You have a computer, PC type. It is connected to the power grid through a wall socket. Electricity is supplied from the grid and the PC works. When the power is interrupted, the PC doesn't work.
Solution? An Uninterruptable Power Supply, UPS. A battery that is inline between the wall socket and the PC. When the power flows, the UPS just sits there staying charged. When the power cuts, the UPS supplies power to the PC for the charge life of the UPS.

What I am seeing here from the detractors is pure Oirish-ness. Any idea that is new and doesn't fit into the auld view is to be spat upon, denigrated out of existence. I have heard that Ireland is always 20 years behind the rest of the develped world, this is why. It reeks of a subservient attitude in that nothing the Irish comes up with is any good.

[maxthedog]

So what you have is a storage facility, that can supply the national grid. Can you give me a link to this machine. Looked out window still no wind blowing, and the sun ain`t shining. which makes about 5 hours of down time. My problem is that in a recession, people will grasp at any straw that makes jobs and energy. Can we afford another 100m in study groups chasing the alchemist stone.

[myksav]

So what you have is a storage facility, that can supply the national grid. Can you give me a link to this machine. Looked out window still no wind blowing, and the sun ain`t shining. which makes about 5 hours of down time. My problem is that in a recession, people will grasp at any straw that makes jobs and energy. Can we afford another 100m in study groups chasing the alchemist stone.

You cannot be that "thick" as to not understand an example.

What has the sun got to do with wind turbines? When I was on my bike today, the wind was certainly blowing quite strongly from the west.

I'm thinking that I may rescind my first sentence.
The SOI are not trying to form a study group, they're trying to get the people to invest in the idea to get it up and running.

My main, and only, gripe is that they aren't thinking big enough.

[mollox]

You cannot be that "thick" as to not understand an example.

What has the sun got to do with wind turbines? When I was on my bike today, the wind was certainly blowing quite strongly from the west.

I'm thinking that I may rescind my first sentence.
The SOI are not trying to form a study group, they're trying to get the people to invest in the idea to get it up and running.

My main, and only, gripe is that they aren't thinking big enough.

What would it take to harvest energy from the bloody rain? Some "showers" this afternoon would have kept the grid going in the absence of wind!

[Just Us]

What would it take to harvest energy from the bloody rain? Some "showers" this afternoon would have kept the grid going in the absence of wind!

Well, the storage dams/reservoirs, if they are built in valleys fed by rivers absorbing a large run-off area, will utilize a fraction of the rain - maybe enough to offset some evapouration losses?

Of course Ardnacrusha [& smaller hydro] already harvests energy from the rain. Norway gets a large portion of its electricity from rain & snow.

The idea should be an eclectic mix of renewables intelligently integrated & managed by a Smart Grid. Another good reason not to sell off the ESB and repeat the disasterous Eircom fiasco.

[Rufty]

just checked your wind map and it is 20 years old. Suspicious of a new company using 20 year old maps. Also it is not broken into months but is an overall picture of ireland. Looking out my window at the moment there isn`t a light breeze. I live in Cork.
my comment is based on an interveiw on the pat Kenny show about 2 years ago, What you must factor in is when the turbines are flying, against when they stand still.Its not far of been equal.

Why one cannot debate scientific fact with someone that hasn't a clue. It's a yearly average, the wind has not changed in over 150 years of records, let alone the last 20! Absolutely ridiculous. But then again, what have fully qualified scientists and technicians got that you can't ascertain from looking out your window on a random day of the year. You have to be in line for stupidest post of the week lad. Either that or you're trying to win the title of wind up merchant of the week!!!

[sparkey321]

Does this not give some credibility to the argment for pumped storage ?

Power storage is the breakthrough we are all waiting for and if half the money that's being thrown away of haft thought out green programs was invested in this area then we might be seeing some progress. Wind, Solar etc without an efficient method of storing power will never work.

However the argument for pumped storage at this level is seriously flawed. you would be dealing with 2 sets of losses which means you have only 50% efficiency. The net result is to increase the requirement for more wind turbines to power pumps to fill these reservoirs. We have already seen in this thread that just to supply the power quoted (ignoring the requirement for additional power to fill the reservoirs) would require an area of land the size of county Limerick..

The volume of land and the initial capital cost of this would be HUGE for little guaranteed return.

[joel]

Power storage is the breakthrough we are all waiting for and if half the money that's being thrown away of haft thought out green programs was invested in this area then we might be seeing some progress. Wind, Solar etc without an efficient method of storing power will never work.

However the argument for pumped storage at this level is seriously flawed. you would be dealing with 2 sets of losses which means you have only 50% efficiency. The net result is to increase the requirement for more wind turbines to power pumps to fill these reservoirs. We have already seen in this thread that just to supply the power quoted (ignoring the requirement for additional power to fill the reservoirs) would require an area of land the size of county Limerick..

The volume of land and the initial capital cost of this would be HUGE for little guaranteed return.

You're talking through your hat. Pumped storage is at least 75% efficient. Its probably as efficient as a battery!

[maxthedog]

No change in wind patterns in the last 20 years, and here I was thinking it had got warmer and damp, due to global warming.The questions i have raised are monthly wind patterns, and the storage of the energy when the grid is quite. No point a turbine flying at 3A.M. As for the money question, This group are looking for cash and because it seems private investors will not touch it. They are trying to put pressure on the goverment which means me the tax payer.Since the interveiw, Pat Kenny has being putting pressure on every Gov official to invest, Has Pat got shares in the idea.
As for scientist`s and engineer`s creating jobs for them selves, why lets look at NASA.Worthy engineering that costs the taxpayer a fortune for very little return. Sending a rocket to the moon that cured cancer.
,

[sparkey321]

Sweet demons above and below, there is a shot of ignorance being displayed on this thread among the detractors of this idea.
So many of you are caught up in the wind not blowing tripe. The idea is a Stored Energy System.

Here's a nice simple example for you.
You have a computer, PC type. It is connected to the power grid through a wall socket. Electricity is supplied from the grid and the PC works. When the power is interrupted, the PC doesn't work.
Solution? An Uninterruptable Power Supply, UPS. A battery that is inline between the wall socket and the PC. When the power flows, the UPS just sits there staying charged. When the power cuts, the UPS supplies power to the PC for the charge life of the UPS.

What I am seeing here from the detractors is pure Oirish-ness. Any idea that is new and doesn't fit into the auld view is to be spat upon, denigrated out of existence. I have heard that Ireland is always 20 years behind the rest of the develped world, this is why. It reeks of a subservient attitude in that nothing the Irish comes up with is any good.

Now the ignorance is being demonstrated by you.

how much do you know about power ? Electricity generation ? Distribution, batteries ?

Stored energy is the dream and something we are all looking forward to but this method is flawed, flawed for many reasons and others have outlined.

Earlier I did calculation (adjusted later by someone else) based on 12 hours of storage. In actual fast the storage requirements would be much much higher then 12 hours. The plan is to build all the wind turbines in clusters. this has advantages regarding cost and connecting them to the national grid but it means that if the wind fails in these areas then large percentages of the power output fails. Wind can and does fail (ie. available wind is outside the range necessary for power generation either to fast or too slow) for long periods of time far longer than 12 hours. You also need to factor in the additional requirements at peak times which will drain the water storage and the extra capacity required to fill these reservoirs in the first place.

The idea will work well on a micro generation basis but as the main source of power for the country !!! No...

They may have something they are not showing us but based on what we have seen its a pipe dream.

On a side note the UPS's you describe are battery backups, they provide minimal storage, are expensive, an environmental nightmare (batteries are far from green) inefficient and bulky.