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About LinkBacksHave you looked at spiritofireland.org??? A lot of your questions answered there.Originally Posted by Christel
Have you looked at spiritofireland.org??? A lot of your questions answered there.
Yes, for example:
"Forum poster: I would also like to express my enthusiasm for the Spirit of Ireland project.
I am very keen to see a list or a map of the 50 candidate valleys. When will SoI make this information available, and why has it not already done so?
Answer: I would imagine that the people who will be informed will be the people in the communities that will be potentially affected. They deserve to have 1st sight of any plans or announcements that could have an impact on their locality. Ensuring that these people are treated with respect and given priority in terms of information about their locality is an important 1st step in the long public consultation process that needs to take place for this project to move as quickly as possible through the planning process.
The briefing for the local communities can take place at the same time as a wider announcement of key locations is being made, but it would be preferrable for local communities to find out from Spirit of Ireland rather than from the media."
Clever answer. Didn't they say it's meant to be a "national endeavour"? They need national support? So why hold back with this information?
Sorry - didn't see your post until now
This is on solar energy. I think the issue here is the amount of sunshine we get. Furthermore, this conversation is about national energy sources, although I acknowledge that solar energy is useful for self-sufficiency and thus reduces national energy requirements.
I did refer to hydrogen cells in a previous post and I agree it is a feasible alternative.Hardly you forgot hydrogen economy, Royal Nedalco's and others aim for second generation biofuels in 2 years, the biomass and biogass industires, the hydrogen industry from biomass or water gas shift, clean fossil fuels etc etc.
On carbon credits - agreedThe deal breaker for any green source. They could be useful but the issue is will the revenue generated be used correctly i.e. used to maintain and increase the efficiency of the green energy sources? That is what has to be leglislated for.
Can you clarify why this is case?Re pumped storage. Remember the efficiency of this storage is les than 50%. That might jack the price uip too high for UK to buy.
Thank you for your comments
To be fair, they do have a point. If they start naming places then the nay-sayers will be in of a shot with shots of, "My rights! They're trying to impose a power station on us!!!" They are looking for national support for the idea so alienating communities and giving the skeptics an audience to target/scaremonger is the last thing they'd want to do.
There is technical info on the site and as I said previously on this thread, the numbers do seem to add up. (Although I'll be reserving my final judgment until the whole thing is infront of me and I've time to pour over the finer points). Also the names and qualifications/experience of those involved (the driving force anyways) are all listed there for you.
That works today, but we have to plan for tomorrow. Last year the UK was down to three weeks gas supply because of a little political argy bargy between the Ukraine and Russia. There are two wars currently being fought over carbon fuel supplies, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan.
How much is all that costing in money and lives ?
"Over 50 team members are now working on the project with expertise in Construction, Planning, Hydrology, Environment, Finance, Economics, Communications and other disciplines. We have received advice from major companies and consultancies."
Who are they?
The description of how build rock walls with the excavated rocks, and how hold the water in the resevoirs is still vague.
Nothing on consequences for the existing environment.
They will have to deal with the sceptics sooner or later.
Their tactic seems to be to convince us that they have a gift horse for us all, and
""No man ought to looke a geuen hors in the mouth."?
Before they rejigged the site, the press release in full was available which included the notes to the editor. I remember reading that they had had people over from J-Power (Japan, experts, have similar systems. Eg: in Okinawa) as well as a Norwegian that deal in damming, a Canadian crowd that do mine sealing in British Colombia (avoid sea water seepage into surrounding land) as well another German power company. SoI said that all four of these gave the project the thumbs up. Can't remember the names of the latter three companies (and didn't save the file as I knew then I should have. D'oh!). Also SIAC did a costing and SISK came back to them confirming that their costings would be very similar to that which SIAC had estimated. As for the other people involved, your guess is as good as mine. Must dash I'm afraid though. Early rise in the morn. Poke around more and in depth off the different links on their site, I keep finding new thing out about them every couple of days when I visit again.
A few HOPE-ful points...
Firstly, cost wise, importing our energy is going to get a lot more expensive, quite quickly. (due to peak oil and related resource scarcity and growing demand)
Heres a recent global graph to put it in perspective:
related article: From OIL AGE financial crisis, to sustainable communities + COP 15
Secondly, production of Irelands energy today is part of the global warming problem, due to C02 emmissions in its production. 98% imports. (not including the energy cost in maving it from A to B)
Thirdly, there are alternatives, they can work.
Fourthly, speaking as a someone working in the field of ecology, design and industrial ecology, we need to radically change the way we have been living. We are at the closing stages of the "oil age", easily found resources are running out. WE LIVE ON A FINITE PLANET, and we have to start living accordingly. (We propose the cradle to cradle (C2C) philosophy and work with the Transition movment)
5-thly: Change is possible, but not with the old mindset. Ireland is great for moaning, BUT, that is not good enough!!! (I left some years back to be inspired by and to participate with people where they moan AND take action) The old "Business as usual" model is over; ADAPT quick or loose out (the global crisis is testament to this). But also the political model, or better mechanism, has to be seriously altered. It has failed Irish people, for the most part, so its not about changing the teams, but altering the way the game is being played.
6 - Spirit of Ireland sounds like a fantastic project. It might not work, BUT, it might work! We need to thoroughly investigate it, if it is possible that all that they claim is true, well then, we should really do our darndest to make it happen. I feel there is a re-awakening of sorts happening in ireland, yes its come from the bubble bursting and many people being badly fuc.ked, but with that there is a questioning, an anger at what was done, and a desire to not let it happen again. With that, I feel this is the sort of project that could really bloom in these dreary times. Remember that within every "Crisis" is an "opportunity". Maybe, just maybe this is it?? Believe a little, be positive and have HOPE, youd be surprised what doors open.
7 - Regarding the tek end of the project, with time analysis etc will be done. BUT, so far it sounds like they have done the maths, a lot of big leaps in science come from simple simple simple little ideas that no one saw before, or connections no one noticed before. So fair play to our Ukranian Irish friend (i think i read that he is the leading patent proposer in ireland at present). At Sliabh.net a man has been working out the tek end, see what he has to say on it: Spirit of Ireland - do the numbers add up?
Lastly, in case you havent heard it already, have a listen to the 2 main radio interviews about the project
Be bold, think big, let the ideas soar.DAY 1 - Launch day, Thursday 7th May
- RTE: Today With Pat Kenny (34 - 61 mins into show)
Great half hour discussion outlining the ideas, the engineering, how the money will be raised, quick positive responses from the public...
DAY 2 - Friday 8th May
TODAY FM: THE LAST WORD with Matt Cooper (4:30 – 5pm section) - Graham O'Donnell, one of the entrepreneurs behind Spirit of Ireland outlines the project
Then come back to earth and realize those dreams...
Heres the YOUTUBE version of the SOI vid:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hocoAk4Mc50"]Spirit of Ireland A breakthrough National Project[/ame]
link from SOI forum
This is what he (sliabh.net) says at the end:
I wouldn't be quite that harsh myself, but the government should at least be very wary before committing any money to it.This scheme strikes me as an over the top think tank fantasy that has escaped out into the wild. What gives me hope, is that the whole scheme is so deranged that it will never be implemented. I just hope no-one in government decides that it might be a good idea to spend some real money looking into this crack pot idea.
The problem is that while pumped storage hydro is not a new idea. Using the sea as part of it, is also not a new idea. The "big idea" with this project is the specific locations they have identified. Until they reveal where and what they are talking about, there isn't anything to talk about - only hot air and marketing.
Last edited by orbit; 14th May 2009 at 10:33 AM.
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