Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[wombat]

Will it make the wind blow more regularly ?

That is the problem which SoI are trying to address. We are committed to wind power, the debate is over, the question is whether we continue with one off windmills with gas back up or try pumped storage. What would you suggest as an alternative, bearing in mind that its illegal to consider nuclear.

[energy]

Security of supply would be achieved by a few more big interconnectors.

The periods of no wind in Ireland are so short, that if the reservoirs are big enough, it shouldn't be a problem. If this works out, when moneypoint is decomissioned at the end of its lifetime, some interconnectors will enable energy to be imported as needed.
This "unreliable form of electricty generation" has made Denmark billions. It's proven technology. Pumped storage is proven.

I suggest you check out the Eirgrid website and download the wind generation figures. The periods of no wind are not short.

So security of supply would be provided by our neighbours in the UK and France which will be Nuclear. So after we go ahead and spend billions on wind turbines and reservoirs we end up relying on Nuclear and to get that we need to spend some more billions building interconnectors to do this.

Great Plan !

Not more regularly but - with the climat change kicking in -more forcible.

Worse again - the Turbines trip out in high winds !

What would you suggest as an alternative, bearing in mind that its illegal to consider nuclear.

The ELECTRICITY REGULATION ACT, 1999 states "(6) An order under this section shall not provide for the use of nuclear fission for the generation of electricity." It may illegal to build but not illegal to consider.

[orbit]

That is the problem which SoI are trying to address. We are committed to wind power, the debate is over, the question is whether we continue with one off windmills with gas back up or try pumped storage. What would you suggest as an alternative, bearing in mind that its illegal to consider nuclear.

Changing the law would be the easiest part. Phase out the oil and coal burning stations - to be replaced with a nuke, backed up by one of these hydro storage systems.

[wombat]

Changing the law would be the easiest part.

I raised the question at a FG meeting - I thought only bishops got reactions like I got. I'm afraid technical illiteracy is ingrained in the Irish public, superstition is not confined to the Greens.

[joel]

I am surprised by all the open hostility to this project.
It is clear that a lot of learning has had to be done by the volunteers in the project, and you step on the toes of the "experts" in the energy domain while doing that learning.
All it requires for the project to be a definite success is an upward change in the cost of fossil fuels, which is IMHO a highly likely event over the course of the next 10 years. The IEA have moved back their prediction of peak oil to 2022, I believe. That's a reasonable time-scale.
I'm not surprised big business are avoiding this, given Ireland's planning problems.
My main concerns would be that our greedy farmers not be given to big a slice of the pie. They have already ruined our planning system with the current interpretation of the constitution favouring property rights over the collective good. If the politicans can take enable the land to be used for a very low cost, great. If not, SOI is screwed.
My impressions are overall that this will succeed. I expect oil at 100+ dollars, given the carbon-free energy firms will want to use, there will be a market for the power.

However, the jury is still out on whether the initiative will succeed. I'll wait for the numbers, before I make any more judgements.

Hostility? Nah, there is one Troll who Trolls against Windpower or 30 kph speed limits or anything else sensible - just because its sensible. Changes his name all the time so as to make out many are against.

[joel]

I raised the question at a FG meeting - I thought only bishops got reactions like I got. I'm afraid technical illiteracy is ingrained in the Irish public, superstition is not confined to the Greens.

Stupidity is ingrained in many posters.

[fiannafailure]

I raised the question at a FG meeting - I thought only bishops got reactions like I got. I'm afraid technical illiteracy is ingrained in the Irish public, superstition is not confined to the Greens.

Perhaps they should speak to head office ??

[Christel]

Sparkey




I suppose the problem boils down to how do you describe a large and very complex project in a few paragraphs.


And there are chosen sites, I believe that the site that we will build first will be in the county that has made the most progress in a planning sense.

What do you mean by this?

[fiannafailure]

I sincerely doubt it. Your contradictory statements confirm this.

Pumped storage does not "solve" the issue of intermittent wind as claimed by Spirit Of Ireland. It can assist in smoothing out some variations in wind power and perhaps could be considered "dispatchable" but in the end it always relies on conventional backup during periods of light (or no) wind and reservoir levels are low.

It cannot guarantee security of supply which is the no. 1 priority in a power system. It is simply an expensive add-on to an already expensive and unreliable form of electricty generation.

energy

My supposed contradictory statements are perhaps influenced more by my/our respect for the promise of confidentiality given to people or organisations either myself or S of I engage with than any change of plan or intent.

Pumped storage does not "solve" the issue of intermittent wind as claimed by Spirit Of Ireland. It can assist in smoothing out some variations in wind power and perhaps could be considered "dispatchable"

It is perhaps more accurate to say that it can smooth all but the very briefest of variation and can help greatly with frequency control issues.

but in the end it always relies on conventional backup during periods of light (or no) wind and reservoir levels are low.

I cannot comment at this moment on this subject other than to say that it has not escaped notice or old fashioned hard work. This response may not please, however I will be free to discuss this soon enough.

It cannot guarantee security of supply which is the no. 1 priority in a power system.

Now I could open a can of worms here, but my own feelings are well known on this subject

It is simply an expensive add-on to an already expensive and unreliable form of electricty generation.

I would like to refer you to an Eirgrid study on large scale pumped hydro, http://www.sei.ie/Renewables/Renewab...%27Donnell.pdf and ask you to consider two things in regard to same, 1) How the attitude to storage has changed over time as more tech's become feasable and 2) How this may change further as the three studies referred to in the final paragraph are completed and integrated into this subject.

The interconnection study is complete and available here

You may notice that Eirgrid are now studying electricity exports as a serious enterprise and again they ask for further study on the economics of interconnection, a view that I have endorsed and written about as recently as today in another very prominent and sober Irish forum. The particular study I believe they ask for has not been published in the public domain yet, although several commercial studies have been done and retained by those commercial enterprises. An anology using the mobile phone industry would be an economic study on the cost/benefit of a ready to go or contract agreement, at present most interconnection is of the ready to go version, although the longest HVDC line in the world is private.

As more studies are released into the private domain, in my opinion, the analysis of storage as a mediation to renewables swings in the favour of storage. In the case of S of I, those studies will be presented to relevant govt departments in the first instance and in due course the Ministers concerned.

It would not be fair or indeed helpful to release these details publicly and in effect conduct negotiations and discuss concerns using megaphone diplomacy.

But I will talk about general concepts publicly and without fear or favour.

[DCon]

I raised the question at a FG meeting - I thought only bishops got reactions like I got. I'm afraid technical illiteracy is ingrained in the Irish public, superstition is not confined to the Greens.

The NIMBY crowd are a strong voice and no TD will go knocking on doors if a nuclear station went up on his/her watch.