Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[sparkey321]

sparkey

Please point out some of the facts that S of I have not disclosed, or rather what facts do you believe that you are entitled to, bearing in mind that S of I is not a public company.

S of I exists as a civic group, with the aim of raising public awareness of both the opportunities and the problems, both technical and political of renewable energy, and alongside the problems we outline the solutions to those problems.

If you are expecting a specific multi billion euro project to be outlined, you will have to wait a short while longer, a company was formed just before Christmas and that company is now in the process of getting into business.

I should also point out that S of I are not the only group researching large scale pumped hydro plus wind energy, in Ireland at the moment, and there are some big names in the energy business looking at the opportunity.

I 100% accept that SOI are a private company but as I have said may times to get suport you need to provide the following.

Would like
A fully costed plan to build the infrastructure (ie reservoirs, connections from wind-farms etc)
A costed figure to install the required number of turbines.

Would NEED
Even a breakdown of the envisaged number of turbines.
The expected Guaranteed sustainable output from the entire project (ie the output from the reservoirs)
Is the infrastructure going to be designed to supply a guaranteed permanent output capacity (ie a base-load) or only as a means to provide peak power demand ?
An independent engineers report of the feasibility and environmental impact of inland salt water storage.
An independent report sustaining the claimed achievable load factors.
If the plan is to supply guaranteed base load and engineers report confirming that the reservoirs are sufficient to maintain this output based on worst case wind conditions.

How much either direct or indirect (including capacity payments, infrastructure changes, inter connectors etc (will be required from the state) Remember you plan on exporting, i assume you plan on using an existing inter-connector for which I assume you will pay but will you require additional infrastructure.

You have in the past mentioned a co-operative model. Will you be guaranteeing any wind-farms a fixed income per unit ?
If so for how long ?

[joel]

sparkey

Please point out some of the facts that S of I have not disclosed, or rather what facts do you believe that you are entitled to, bearing in mind that S of I is not a public company.

S of I exists as a civic group, with the aim of raising public awareness of both the opportunities and the problems, both technical and political of renewable energy, and alongside the problems we outline the solutions to those problems.

If you are expecting a specific multi billion euro project to be outlined, you will have to wait a short while longer, a company was formed just before Christmas and that company is now in the process of getting into business.

I should also point out that S of I are not the only group researching large scale pumped hydro plus wind energy, in Ireland at the moment, and there are some big names in the energy business looking at the opportunity.

Really? - I suppose the profits will be going out of the country! Worthless politicians.

Just like in the case of Shell. I guess Britain will getting the benifits of Corrib.

[fiannafailure]

sparkey

I 100% accept that SOI are a private company but as I have said may times to get suport you need to provide the following.

Would like
A fully costed plan to build the infrastructure (ie reservoirs, connections from wind-farms etc)
A costed figure to install the required number of turbines.

Would NEED
Even a breakdown of the envisaged number of turbines.
The expected Guaranteed sustainable output from the entire project (ie the output from the reservoirs)
Is the infrastructure going to be designed to supply a guaranteed permanent output capacity (ie a base-load) or only as a means to provide peak power demand ?
An independent engineers report of the feasibility and environmental impact of inland salt water storage.
An independent report sustaining the claimed achievable load factors.
If the plan is to supply guaranteed base load and engineers report confirming that the reservoirs are sufficient to maintain this output based on worst case wind conditions.

How much either direct or indirect (including capacity payments, infrastructure changes, inter connectors etc (will be required from the state) Remember you plan on exporting, i assume you plan on using an existing inter-connector for which I assume you will pay but will you require additional infrastructure.

You have in the past mentioned a co-operative model. Will you be guaranteeing any wind-farms a fixed income per unit ?
If so for how long ?

I have given some of the info in a reply on another thread, here is a copy

A 100GW/Hr pumped storage reservoir will cost €800 million, S of I wind energy will cost €1.2 million per MW installed or lower, modelling on the wind/hydro bus show that to give a consistent 700Mw output, with peak output capability of 1GW, the reservoir needs to be fed by1800 Mw of installed turbines on sites with a capacity factor of 40% or above and average wind speeds in excess of 7 m/sec at hub height.

Numerous sites for both components are identified and discussions are under way in several, soon the necessary environmental studies will commence.

The electricity thus produced will enable profitable operation at as little as 7.5c a unit to Eirgrids busbars.

With no subsidy.

A lot of the other info you require is either part of a prospectus being prepared for investors or will form part of planning applications or is being otherwise prepared or unavailable for a while, for example you ask for a breakdown of turbine size, however that will depend on the site and its location, Clare will allow a lot more now than any other council, I wonder why, could it be something to do with hard work by an organisation in conjunction with a brave and hard working council with a real interest in those they serve.

And S of I really believe in the Co op principle, I personally can't see how it can be done any other way.

There is a huge amount of work to be done on the economics of interconnection, personally I believe it should be owned rather than pay as you go. How can other similar interconnectors be built for a little over €1 million per kilometre.

Really? - I suppose the profits will be going out of the country! Worthless politicians.

Just like in the case of Shell. I guess Britain will getting the benifits of Corrib.

Joel

S of I have a slight first mover advantage

[cry freedom]

A 100GW/Hr pumped storage reservoir will cost €800 million, S of I wind energy will cost €1.2 million per MW installed or lower, modelling on the wind/hydro bus show that to give a consistent 700Mw output, with peak output capability of 1GW, the reservoir needs to be fed by1800 Mw of installed turbines on sites with a capacity factor of 40% or above and average wind speeds in excess of 7 m/sec at hub height.

Fiannafailure, surely this is a typo.Please tell me it's a typo.
100GW of pumped storage?
Thats 4 times the total wind energy created in Germany in 2006.
And thats at the top of the climb.
It will probally take 3 times that energy to get all the water up there in the first place.

[fiannafailure]

A 100GW/Hr pumped storage reservoir will cost €800 million, S of I wind energy will cost €1.2 million per MW installed or lower, modelling on the wind/hydro bus show that to give a consistent 700Mw output, with peak output capability of 1GW, the reservoir needs to be fed by1800 Mw of installed turbines on sites with a capacity factor of 40% or above and average wind speeds in excess of 7 m/sec at hub height.

Fiannafailure, surely this is a typo.Please tell me it's a typo.
100GW of pumped storage?
Thats 4 times the total wind energy created in Germany in 2006.
And thats at the top of the climb.
It will probally take 3 times that energy to get all the water up there in the first place.

Not a typo, maybe a reado.

100GW/hrs refers to the capacity of the reservoir = 1 Gw for 100 hrs or 500MW for 200 hrs.

The initial fill will be the inverse of those generation figures plus about 20%.

Ireland is not Germany !!!

[joel]

Not a typo, maybe a reado.

100GW/hrs refers to the capacity of the reservoir = 1 Gw for 100 hrs or 500MW for 200 hrs.

The initial fill will be the inverse of those generation figures plus about 20%.

Ireland is not Germany !!!

Won't the rain fill her up!

[joel]

Won't the rain fill her up!

Thats a point - dam streams up there. No need to pump water up!

[fiannafailure]

Thats a point - dam streams up there. No need to pump water up!

Depends on the environmental assessment.

Won't the rain fill her up!

It wont hurt the process in fact it will counter evaporation losses

[cry freedom]

100GW/hrs refers to the capacity of the reservoir = 1 Gw for 100 hrs or 500MW for 200 hrs.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
100GW/HR is not the same as 100GW/hrs, as you have conviently changed it to.

[sparkey321]

sparkey

I have given some of the info in a reply on another thread, here is a copy

A 100GW/Hr pumped storage reservoir will cost €800 million, S of I wind energy will cost €1.2 million per MW installed or lower, modelling on the wind/hydro bus show that to give a consistent 700Mw output, with peak output capability of 1GW, the reservoir needs to be fed by1800 Mw of installed turbines on sites with a capacity factor of 40% or above and average wind speeds in excess of 7 m/sec at hub height.

Numerous sites for both components are identified and discussions are under way in several, soon the necessary environmental studies will commence.

The electricity thus produced will enable profitable operation at as little as 7.5c a unit to Eirgrids busbars.

With no subsidy.

A lot of the other info you require is either part of a prospectus being prepared for investors or will form part of planning applications or is being otherwise prepared or unavailable for a while, for example you ask for a breakdown of turbine size, however that will depend on the site and its location, Clare will allow a lot more now than any other council, I wonder why, could it be something to do with hard work by an organisation in conjunction with a brave and hard working council with a real interest in those they serve.

And S of I really believe in the Co op principle, I personally can't see how it can be done any other way.

There is a huge amount of work to be done on the economics of interconnection, personally I believe it should be owned rather than pay as you go. How can other similar interconnectors be built for a little over €1 million per kilometre.

I have seen those figures previously but I have not seen any data to back them up.

800 million per reservoir is to my mind optimistic but I have nothing to compare it to I cannot argue that figure.

1.2 million per MW installed for wind energy. Again you have quoted that figure previously with nothing to back it up. However it is vastly lower than the price paid by any current wind farm or wind company in Ireland. I can understand economies of scale but the reduction you are talking about is massive.

Also dies this include the cost of the infrastructure to connect all these turbines in various locations to your reservoirs ? I seriously doubt it.

40% load factors across 1800 Mw installed.. That's an average 40% load factor across 600 turbines (assuming 3MW turbines). Current wind farms are achieving load factors as low as 20%. Very few if any are approaching 40%, even offshore is lucky to achieve 40%. Yet you claim you can achieve an average of 40% across 600 turbines across multiple locations. This to be honest is one of the claims that I find hardest to believe and you have supplied no data to back this up.

Now to again use your figures.

1800 Mw of wind installed with an 700MW secure sustainable output using a 100GW hour reservoir gives just under 6 days of backup but leaves no capacity for refill.

The entire output from the turbines using your figure of 40% load factor (which we must remember is an average) is 720MW so providing full demand leaves 20MW to fill the reservoir.. This makes absolutely no sense what so ever and I cannot see how this could deliver a consistent guaranteed 700 MW output in the long term.

Based on this I have to ask again. is the intention to supply a permanent secure supply ie. a base-load or to supply peak demand..

You have people here supporting and arguing against a proposal that we don't even know what it is.