Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[Heorditas]

Oil & gas prices are down because of the recession. If you look at the trend in oil prices, you will see that they rise, supplies increase / recession causes them to fall, demand increases and prices increase. The important part is that they don't fall back to $20/barrel.

That's not why gas prices fell. Gas is not affected in the same way that oil is.
It's a much more complex market than that.

[fiannafailure]

That's not why gas prices fell. Gas is not affected in the same way that oil is.
It's a much more complex market than that.

Gas is indeed a complex market, however LNG is a very energy intensive product, the gas must be cleaned, cooled, liquified and transported, then turned back into gas at landfall, I would need a lot of reassurance that it can be done cheaply.
The other fact is that a ship can be diverted towards a better price at any time, if Ireland is going down the LNG route, where are the storage facilities, most of the better sites are being looked at for compressed air storage or carbon storage, perhaps we are going to build some very massive steel tanks.

[Christel]

myksav

S of I have no plans to expensively desalinate water, store it for a few days and give it back to the sea.
Why would we, seawater is not a toxic substance in the normal sense of the word and there are a lot of applications that presently use seawater with no problems. There are even some small natural saltwater lakes in Ireland and huge ones in other parts of the world.

So you see no problems with bringing saltwater into an area up a mountain where there was no saltwater before? And building wind turbines around them?

You must be aware of problems all that can cause. Why not say so and tell of SOI's proposed mitigation plans?

I'm really looking forward to get to know of the sites envisaged for these reservoirs.

Just wondering: If with heavy rainfalls you would have to release water from the reservoirs: where would it go to? Straight into the sea, or would there be a danger that it causes flooding elsewhere?

[joel]

So you see no problems with bringing saltwater into an area up a mountain where there was no saltwater before? And building wind turbines around them?

You must be aware of problems all that can cause. Why not say so and tell of SOI's proposed mitigation plans?

I'm really looking forward to get to know of the sites envisaged for these reservoirs.

Just wondering: If with heavy rainfalls you would have to release water from the reservoirs: where would it go to? Straight into the sea, or would there be a danger that it causes flooding elsewhere?

No, not in the sea - too salty. Flood the land.

[myksav]

So you see no problems with bringing saltwater into an area up a mountain where there was no saltwater before? And building wind turbines around them?

You must be aware of problems all that can cause. Why not say so and tell of SOI's proposed mitigation plans?

I'm really looking forward to get to know of the sites envisaged for these reservoirs.

Just wondering: If with heavy rainfalls you would have to release water from the reservoirs: where would it go to? Straight into the sea, or would there be a danger that it causes flooding elsewhere?

From what I've seen of the SoI proposal, the reservoirs would be glacial type valleys along the coast. The vegetation 'native' to such areas tend to be salt resistant. So any plant life above the reservoir level wouldn't be effected that much.
Any areas that could be potentially porous rock would be sealed, as done in Japan.

If the surrounding area would be suitable for turbines, (coastal area, well above sealevel, uninterrupted windflow) then it would make sense to put them there. Added bonus is solid rock for foundations.

As for looking forward to get to know of the sites envisaged for these reservoirs, why not do a look at topographical maps of the west coast and try to spot all potential site candidates. There's a lot of them, by the way, could take you a while.

Just wondering: If with heavy rainfalls you would have to release water from the reservoirs: where would it go to? Straight into the sea, or would there be a danger that it causes flooding elsewhere?

Straight into the sea. Probably via spillways.

Every component needed for the SoI plan is off-the-shelf. Each subsystem, wind turbines, dam, generator turbines, reservoir linings, etc, are existing systems. The only thing SoI are really doing is tying them together in Ireland on a larger scale than the Japanese have done. And in this application of hydraulics, bigger is definitely better.

What I find so typically Oirish is the attitude against the idea. It's a "oh shur, we couldn't be doing something like this, tis too grand for us." attitude, an inferiority complex some Irish have. Twenty years behind the rest of the 'western' world and proud of it.

[wombat]

What I find so typically Oirish is the attitude against the idea. It's a "oh shur, we couldn't be doing something like this, tis too grand for us." attitude, an inferiority complex some Irish have. Twenty years behind the rest of the 'western' world and proud of it.

Ardnacrusha was considered equally daft, the Brits hadn't developed it, so how could the native govt.?

[wombat]

That's not why gas prices fell. Gas is not affected in the same way that oil is.
It's a much more complex market than that.

Gas is not as valuable as oil, unless you're on a pipeline its very expensive to transport. China and Japan have huge requirements for LNG, the Aussies can't build their plants fast enough, not sure about Algeria, I suspect they still sell theirs to Europe.

[deiseguy]

Oil & gas prices are down because of the recession. If you look at the trend in oil prices, you will see that they rise, supplies increase / recession causes them to fall, demand increases and prices increase. The important part is that they don't fall back to $20/barrel.

exactly

[deiseguy]

That's not why gas prices fell. Gas is not affected in the same way that oil is.
It's a much more complex market than that.

Gas is not in a complex market on its own. In '07 when oil was pushing towards record highs so were wheat and all other grain prices because of the amount of grain being diverted toward the energy market. And when oil sets new records over the next couple of years gas will follow right along behind along with any other energy source and any product requiring a lot of energy to produce, steel, cement etc. Also where are the billions needed to build an LNG terminal going to come from. I believe the one being built in Wales is costing £2 billion which in Irish money is probably €5 billion. Can you just imagine the nimby row about where that terminal was not going to be sited. SOI is not talking about a whole lot more money than this with the major difference that every penny earned by SOI stays in our column on the balance of payments.

The SOI proposal has so many pluses to it and so little negatives it makes me weep that it is meeting so much resistance. It has the potential to utterly change this country's economy,to take us away from pyramid schemes and over reliance on FDI. I am not ungrateful to the companies who have invested here over the years but they all operate on pure business models and the second its more profitable to move jobs they go as is their right and their duty to their shareholders. Attracting FDI is not an end but a means to an end but no Irish govt has ever planned for a next step never mind actually taken it.

SOI is a next step, its an attempt to create and indigenous industry producing a product with a huge global market and with the worlds richest market literally tapped into already. You can have all the IT startups and globally traded services you want but without some home based substantial industries there isn't much to fall back on in hard times. Eventually to much reliance on services ends up with an accountant doing a hairdressers books which she is paying for with money she got from an auctioneer for doing his hair.

If SOI gets off the ground and can even be scaled up to the point where we replace fossil fuels for heat and transport with green electricity we would become the goto guy for western indusrialised and post industrial ecomomies. The medium potential for the country is huge €10 billion of the NAMA money should be taken off the banks and made available to SOI. Don't forget the SOI proposal is based around a national co-op with every family being a shareholder. A co-op is different to a plc if I buy 1 share and you put in €10 million at voting time you have one vote and so do I, this is the really attractive part of the proposal if they get this right no golden circle will be making off with the loot.

[fiannafailure]

Ardnacrusha was considered equally daft, the Brits hadn't developed it, so how could the native govt.?

And then of course the yanks came to study it, Ardnacrusha was in many ways the inspiration behind the Hoover Dam and a lot of the American response to the depression.