Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

[sparkey321]

Sparkey
An example of utopia in practice, have a look at the maintainance issues to answer why onshore is best where possible

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid...on%2Fpdf&pli=1

Link leads to a log in page.... which once I log in tells me the page in unavailable.

[fiannafailure]

Link leads to a log in page.... which once I log in tells me the page in unavailable.

It works for me sparkey, I will find another link, it would answer many of your questions from real life experience

[fiannafailure]

I picked Lissycasey because it was recently in the press but I could have equally used any otehr area where locals have objected to wind farms.



Objections by locals. I allready explained that. What I aasked and what I am still asking is what SOI will do for the locals to change their minds.




name 1 community that has agreed to climb on board. Then tell my what landowners have agreed to allow their land to be used.

So you want the locals to invest cash in return for equity in the wind farm ?

I cannot wait for you to publish your financial projects and costings....




That not the point.

Say you build the plant in Limerick... No problem, how will that affect the protesters in Kerry, Clare, Galway, Mayo, Sligo and Donegal ? What will it do to change their views and lift their objections ? What will to do for those communities ?

What exactly will SOI do for these communities ?

Pick Lissycasey again. Lets say you get the land owners and 1000 people to sign up to your plan and they decide to invest. How much realistically do you think the people of Lissycasey, the farmers, shopkeepers etc afford to invest in the project and how much or a return will they get for that investment ? How many jobs will be created for the people of Lissycasey ?

SOI keep talking about the benefits to the local communities, the money the jobs but have never quantified them.

That is what I am asking you to do.

This link will work Sparkey

http://www.middelgrunden.dk/projekti..._72dpi_rgb.pdf

A lot of objections to windfarms are based on incorrect information, and in many cases the promoter of the project is doing this for the first time and so does not know how to deal with the sometimes very professionally organised objections, there are quite a few people making a very nice living as consultants to these groups.

If you are a member of a community and do not have any hope of making money from a windfarm, and are presented with distorted information, of course you would believe that the prudent thing to do is go along with the objection, you dont have anything to lose by doing so.

Sparkey, I have lived in the same house for almost 30 years, and the area around me has grown considerably over that time, I live on a road that has changed from a semi country road into a main access road into Dublin, many mornings it can take 10 mins to be allowed out of my driveway and it is very annoying, however if there was a toll on that road and I received a few bob every month to compensate me for my inconvenience, I do not think my blood pressure would rise quite as high, in fact I might look forward to counting the cars.

[sparkey321]

Ok I get the file.

It refers to offshore wind-farms that have no impact or effect on the locals. They are 2Km off shore.

They will not affect TV signals.
Create noise pollution.
Affect Views.
Be placed on any individuals land.

BIG difference.

But back to my question.

Pick Lissycasey again. Lets say you get the land owners and 1000 people to sign up to your plan and they decide to invest. How much realistically do you think the people of Lissycasey, the farmers, shopkeepers etc afford to invest in the project and how much or a return will they get for that investment ?

How many jobs will be created for the people of Lissycasey ?

SOI keep talking about the benefits to the local communities, the money the jobs but have never quantified them.

That is what I am asking you to do.

[fiannafailure]

[quote=sparkey321;2000026]

Ok I get the file.

It refers to offshore wind-farms that have no impact or effect on the locals. They are 2Km off shore.

The principles are the same, ownership = control + revenue, did you see the return on capital in that link, where could you get 7.5% today with very little risk, every year

They will not affect TV signals.

It is true that very occasionally a persons TV reception can suffer from ghosting, however analogue TV will be shut down very soon and digital signals do not suffer from ghosting, in any case a good aerial installer will cure this easily.

Create noise pollution.

I have been to almost every windfarm in Ireland and noise pollution is a fallacy, unless you live underneath a turbine in which case you will hear a whooosh at less than 60db, a cows fart is louder and the quiet country road I moved to 30 years ago is now considerably louder than 60db

Affect Views.

You cannot hide or disguise a wind turbine, you can though, get very used to them, as you did Moneypoint

Be placed on any individuals land.

It cannot be placed on your land without permission and payment.

But back to my question.

I would start by asking them to come on a tour of Invaran windfarm in Galway, where local people are building new houses of their own free will beside the windfarm of which the locality are very proud and then I would
put a voodoo curse on them if they did not pay attention to what I told them

[H]

Ok I get the file.

It refers to offshore wind-farms that have no impact or effect on the locals. They are 2Km off shore.

They will not affect TV signals.
Create noise pollution.
Affect Views.
Be placed on any individuals land.

BIG difference.

But back to my question.

Yeah but they affect everything else with the environment etc.

Offshore wind farms have serious negative effects on the environment never mind their dreadfully poor efficiency and the extraordinarily high costs of rolling out the infrastructure as well as maintaining it.

5 of the 18 wind farms planned for offshore use in the U.K. were banned by the UK ministry of Defence due to demonstrable interference with electromagnetic interference with radar and flight paths of both civil and defence aircraft. There has been good work done by the Univ of Liverpool into the damage caused to marine life by both the turbines and off shore cabling EMF fields. The population of water fowl around an offshore wind farm in Denmark declined by 70% to 90% over a 3 year period.

They are lethal to bird life in general; a 1994 EU study showed a significant number of 13 bird species were killed in Tarifa, Spain.

Studies have shown that many fish species are magneto-sensitive and that magnetic fields affect their orientation. Induced EMF fields from undersea cables disrupt the natural geomagnetic patterns affecting migrating fish. Induced EMF fields affect fish physiology their reproduction and survival

2 km’s is a joke distance as the visual impact alone would be terrible. The UK Dept of Trade and Industry study (and they are pro wind farms!) indicated the following

Thresholds for seascapes:

Thresholds
<13km possible major visual effects
13-24km possible moderate visual effects
>24km possible minor visual effects.

Polluting the sea with wind farms is no way to protect the environment or generate useful stable electricity supples

[wombat]

Polluting the sea with wind farms is no way to protect the environment or generate useful stable electricity supples

Would you not consider them a huge improvement on thermal stations? We can't build anything without having an impact on the environment, surely the objective is to minimise it.

[fiannafailure]

H
I am intriqued by your post on the following grounds, most environmentalists promote offshore windfarms and I always felt that was a bit odd, as if putting something out at sea, makes all the problems go away.

I would very much agree that an offshore windfarm could be seen on radar, it would not interfere with radar in any electromagnetic way, but would make a return in the same way as a building or aircraft would.

Your thesis regarding electromagnetic effects from the cabling could have credence, however if this effect proved to be harmful, a HVDC link could be used. Proof would be needed as they are more expensive particularly on short links.

However I do not place a lot of value on visual effects, I pass Huntstown power station almost every day and I do not consider it a pretty sight. I used to have a beautiful view of the Dublin mountains from my garden, it no longer exists, I now have the gable end of a house to look at, maybe its your house, if so could you please change the colour, however I did not purchase a view along with my house

[sparkey321]

I asked this

Pick Lissycasey again. Lets say you get the land owners and 1000 people to sign up to your plan and they decide to invest. How much realistically do you think the people of Lissycasey, the farmers, shopkeepers etc afford to invest in the project and how much or a return will they get for that investment ?

How many jobs will be created for the people of Lissycasey ?

SOI keep talking about the benefits to the local communities, the money the jobs but have never quantified them.

That is what I am asking you to do.

And you answer with this.

I would start by asking them to come on a tour of Invaran windfarm in Galway, where local people are building new houses of their own free will beside the windfarm of which the locality are very proud and then I would
put a voodoo curse on them if they did not pay attention to what I told them

That's not an answer to the questions I asked...

You have over and over again cited the benefits that SOI would bring to local communities, it has been a key point in all the SOI presentations and justifications but
has never been defined.

I am asking you to quantify that now.

Anything else SOI have been asked to define they either straight away said it was still under development or provided an answer that didn't stand up and then claimed it was still under discussion.

I assumed that this at least would have been quantified. Was I wrong ? Is the claim just another soundbite ?

[fiannafailure]

Sparkey
I cannot make it plainer than this, we offer community ownership of whatever resource is placed in that community. I have already explained the co op structure.

But let us take Lissycasey. the only way S of I could get involved with Lissycasey would be if we were invited to talk to the community about S of I.
As Lissycasey had already had a number of projects turned down in the past, this invite would probably come fron one of the previous promoters.
The first thing on the agenda is to discover what the objections were, then hold a public meeting at which the co op model is explained, offer to take any one who does not like windmills on a tour of one or two, and show that they are not noisy, they do not decrease the value of your house and crops can be grown or grazing take place underneath them.

If the community feels they want to progress, we start the feasibility studies, if there is still a negative feeling in the community towards wind we admit defeat and move on.

In short the agenda must be driven from within the community.

For communities that feel they wish to know more, the first step to be taken is a feasibility study, their are windmaps available to give a rough idea of the wind resource, and from this and a study of the land available for the project, an outline plan can be developed and an approximate value put on the revenue potential of the site, if the community feel at this stage they want to progress, then the co op is formed, the revenue share agreed and they wait on the start line for S of I and its proposal to be given the go ahead or not.

The communities who could most benefit from S of I, are in areas of poor conventional economic potential and wish to provide both a community income and of course a personal one.

The communities who will benefit most of all are those who will host a pumped hydro unit, as there will be a host of economic goodies there and the benefits will be there for a long long time.

You of course will want to know to the nearest euro how much Lissycasey could benefit, how can I tell you without a study and that study will then belong to Lissycasey.
So I can only say that a community windfarm will provide an income for both the community and the people in the community.