Potential for pumped-storage hydro power in Donegal?

[Pauli]

It strikes me that Donegal has lots of highland reasonably close to the sea. So in theory, you could have thousands of megawatts being generated by offshore wind (off Donegal we have the strongest winds) and the power stored in multiple versions of the artificial reservoir which sits on Turlough Hill.

Turlough Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The planning laws would need to be changed so that such reservoirs could be built in a reasonable time frame, of course.

Can we discuss this in terms of practicalities? Maybe we have some engineers here.

Planning laws? Donegal? Are you aware of what happens when you combine these two?

[wombat]

I've wondered about that myself. They planned 200 turbines but only built 7.

We used to have a few Green posters who seemed to be well connected to Ryan & Gormley, maybe if they are still there they could find out?

[DaveM]

It strikes me that Donegal has lots of highland reasonably close to the sea. So in theory, you could have thousands of megawatts being generated by offshore wind (off Donegal we have the strongest winds) and the power stored in multiple versions of the artificial reservoir which sits on Turlough Hill.

Turlough Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The planning laws would need to be changed so that such reservoirs could be built in a reasonable time frame, of course.

Can we discuss this in terms of practicalities? Maybe we have some engineers here.

Won't happen. Apart from the inevitable opposition from environmentalist, the modern day cost of such a project would be astronomical. In any event we simply don't need another Turlough Hill.

Turlough Hill is based on pumping water from one lake to another which is at a higher elevation - as far as I know, it is a unique location in Ireland, its also one of our bigger generating stations, 300 MW. I suspect that if there were other suitable sites, the ESB would be developing them as they are an answer to the problem if intermittant wind power.

Turlough Hill is not a generating station. Pumped storage hydro plants are effectively giant batteries that cater for peaks and troughs in demand without the need for constantly varying output from generating plants. You pump up when demand is low and let the flow down at peak demand times.

[Glennshane]

Won't happen. Apart from the inevitable opposition from environmentalist, the modern day cost of such a project would be astronomical. In any event we simply don't need another Turlough Hill.



Turlough Hill is not a generating station. Pumped storage hydro plants are effectively giant batteries that cater for peaks and troughs in demand without the need for constantly varying output from generating plants. You pump up when demand is low and let the flow down at peak demand times.

Is it true that the pump storage facility at Turlough Hill is not very efficient and that somehow a lot of the energy is lost?

[COMMIE]

Just a question. I hear in England you can buy micro-turbines for you house. That fit on gable end. Are these aloud in Ireland? And were can you purchuse then here?

[perprojustice]

Just a question. I hear in England you can buy micro-turbines for you house. That fit on gable end. Are these aloud in Ireland? And were can you purchuse then here?

Yes you can buy them here in Ireland and they are allowed.

If they are under a certain output you do not need planning permission and the government is committed to buying back a certain amount of the electricity produced at 19p a kwh.

Google wind turbines and you will bring up quite a few retailers.

Whereas they are environmentally viable I do not believe they are financially viable

[DaveM]

Is it true that the pump storage facility at Turlough Hill is not very efficient and that somehow a lot of the energy is lost?

I'm not sure how it compares relative to other facilities of that type. Pumps and turbines are constantly being refined to improve efficiency but I'm not sure how much equipment in place is that which was originally installed in the early 1970's - the pumps have probably been replaced (possibly more than once) and there would always be ongoing maintenance and small upgrades. However I'd guess the vast majority of the facility dates from the original construction. It was the best technology available at the time of construction and the scale of the plant relative to demand from the grid that still makes it a very important piece of infrastructure today.

[feargach]

In any event we simply don't need another Turlough Hill.

Turlough Hill is not a generating station. Pumped storage hydro plants are effectively giant batteries that cater for peaks and troughs in demand without the need for constantly varying output from generating plants. You pump up when demand is low and let the flow down at peak demand times.

With respect, that would be a bit like the Saudi Arabians saying "we don't need to drill for any more oil, we already have enough for all the cars in Saudi Arabia".

The point is that we could be generating several multiples of Ireland´s energy needs from wind. Storing it in such "giant batteries" and selling it, as needed, to the UK via interconnectors. The storage element is so that we can pick our times for releasing the energy, to maximise the monetary reward.

[DaveM]

With respect, that would be a bit like the Saudi Arabians saying "we don't need to drill for any more oil, we already have enough for all the cars in Saudi Arabia".

The point is that we could be generating several multiples of Ireland´s energy needs from wind. Storing it in such "giant batteries" and selling it, as needed, to the UK via interconnectors. The storage element is so that we can pick our times for releasing the energy, to maximise the monetary reward.

feargach, the capital expenditure required to construct another facility like Turlough Hill would be enormous. If this is to be done so as to facilitate the generation of renewable energy on a much larger scale then this capital expenditure would have to be factored into the cost of the electricity generated through depreciation of the asset. As such the cost of the electricity generated would be far higher than the market is willing to pay. To sell it to the UK or others we would have to subsidise the cost - it just doesn't make sense. At a time when capital for infrastucture spending is so scarce this would be a huge waste of money.

[wombat]

Is it true that the pump storage facility at Turlough Hill is not very efficient and that somehow a lot of the energy is lost?

There are losses in all machines, so there are losses in pumping the water up the hill and losses when the water runs down again. Currently, the most efficient power stations are the modern gas fired stations. Turlough Hill was built so that it could be run to produce electricity during peak demand. We do not have a huge night time demand for electricity because very few of our factories operate 24 hrs per day - one of the arguments against a nuclear station. Regarding high capital costs, this is true but finding suitable sites is a bigger obstacle.