No time to waste on going nuclear

[eskerman]

Is there uranium in Ireland? If not, it will have to be imported.

I am no Nuclear Scientist and I am sure we would have to import uranium. My understanding is its available from a number of countries and that we may not require any large quantities on the scales of Oil and Coal and gas.

As I suggested on an earlier thread, we would not have to consider the Nuclear option until we have tried and tested all the other natural possibilities to produce alternative energy...wind-wave- and AD.

We cant rule out Nuclear ever...France has been running this type of energy for many years without too many incidents as far as I know.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Scaremongering of the highest order. Typical Green!

They could build it in my garden if they want! Modern nuclear power stations are incredibly safe and scare mongering of this type is disgusting.

BS of the highest order. We have no idea how much damage we are doing.

[SPN]

CHP power plants do not use anerobic digestion for power generation. CHP plant work on the basis that a heat engine that converts thermal energy to electrical energy, lose about half the electircal energy to waste heat. CHP plants recover this waste heat. Most CHP plants are used on gas turbines.

Power generation using anerobic digestion would come about by generating heat. This route has not been made sucessful for power generation. This is because the amount of heat generated per volume of material used is quite small. Further the types of waste that can be used for power generation are limited.

I know of at least four CHP plants in Ireland running off the back of Anaerobic Digesters. (Here's a report on the one at Callan Co. Kilkenny, and a report on the one at Adamstown Co. Wexford.)

This is a proven technology which is in use worldwide.

I hope these links will bring you up to speed on the topic.

[Ono Kyoto]

Here is the primary reason we should not allow the nuclear industry in Ireland:-
There are enough chancers among the top people who might get to run such enterprises in this country that we couldn't trust them not to take short cuts for a quick buck. If the Beef Tribunal wasn't enough to convince you then the recent banking/property wheezes should provide more than enough evidence. We don't need to take these risks.

[SPN]

Here is the primary reason we should not allow the nuclear industry in Ireland:-
There are enough chancers among the top people who might get to run such enterprises in this country that we couldn't trust them not to take short cuts for a quick buck. If the Beef Tribunal wasn't enough to convince you then the recent banking/property wheezes should provide more than enough evidence. We don't need to take these risks.

eVoting was the clincher for me.

It never worked. Every IT person who took a look at it said it could never work. The studies conducted by the DOEHLG showed that it didn't work.

But our beloved leaders went ahead and paid multiples of the list price for 7000 of the feckin things anyway.

[riven]

I know of at least four CHP plants in Ireland running off the back of Anaerobic Digesters. (Here's a report on the one at Callan Co. Kilkenny, and a report on the one at Adamstown Co. Wexford.)

This is a proven technology which is in use worldwide.

I hope these links will bring you up to speed on the topic.

Which give the perfect illustration as to why this method of power generation is not viable yet. See the second report and compare the 800,000 outlay with the saving of 25,000. These projects are miniscule and yet provide hard any energy at a very very high cost. Biogas is not a proven technology and is not used worldwide. Current the best available option using a bio route for power generation is either the burning of biomass or ethanol production.

[QuizMaster]

Here is the primary reason we should not allow the nuclear industry in Ireland:-
There are enough chancers among the top people who might get to run such enterprises in this country that we couldn't trust them not to take short cuts for a quick buck. If the Beef Tribunal wasn't enough to convince you then the recent banking/property wheezes should provide more than enough evidence. We don't need to take these risks.

How about a sewage treatment scheme which could empty into the open sea with favourable currents for taking it away, but instead will be emptying into Lough Foyle right at Moville, against all expert advice.
Are there vested interests at play? Corruption? Cute hoorism? Donegal mafia? I will have to leave these questions unanswered for fear of getting David sued. Anyone interested in this issue please PM me.

Put these people in charge of nuclear power? Put them in charge of thousands of years of secure storage of nuclear waste? You decide.

[myksav]

How about a sewage treatment scheme which could empty into the open sea with favourable currents for taking it away, but instead will be emptying into Lough Foyle right at Moville, against all expert advice.
Are there vested interests at play? Corruption? Cute hoorism? Donegal mafia? I will have to leave these questions unanswered for fear of getting David sued. Anyone interested in this issue please PM me.

Put these people in charge of nuclear power? Put them in charge of thousands of years of secure storage of nuclear waste? You decide.

You don't put sewage treatment personel in charge of a nuclear power plant, they wouldn't know how to switch it on.

[eskerman]

Which give the perfect illustration as to why this method of power generation is not viable yet. See the second report and compare the 800,000 outlay with the saving of 25,000. These projects are miniscule and yet provide hard any energy at a very very high cost. Biogas is not a proven technology and is not used worldwide. Current the best available option using a bio route for power generation is either the burning of biomass or ethanol production.

The dutch have been supporting renewable energy for over 10 years, and that includes Biogas/CHP systems. Rabobank are a big supporter of this type of technology and have invested in many private schemes we are only dreaming about here in Ireland. Its all politics, planning issues, and old broken banks who where only interested in selling monster 40yr mortgages and lending money to the gang of 10 types at Anglo.

The people need to be educated and we have to avoid the parish pump politics that are commonplace on this small island

http://www.rabobank.com/content/imag...cm43-36617.pdf

[riven]

The dutch have been supporting renewable energy for over 10 years, and that includes Biogas/CHP systems. Rabobank are a big supporter of this type of technology and have invested in many private schemes we are only dreaming about here in Ireland. Its all politics, planning issues, and old broken banks who where only interested in selling monster 40yr mortgages and lending money to the gang of 10 types at Anglo.

The people need to be educated and we have to avoid the parish pump politics that are commonplace on this small island

http://www.rabobank.com/content/imag...cm43-36617.pdf

The Dutch have been and are mainly supporting biomass. Their major research centres (of which I am part of one) have no group involved specifically for biogas but they do for biomass. Biogas has found a resurgance but applications are very limited.

To show you why biogas is not viable here is a very quick economic claculation on the Skinnerup plant (data in last link for SPN).

Biomass case:
Assume best case scenario: Highest product amount at highest retail value for listed investment.
Production
Dec 20000 m3gas
Price max 0,7 DDK/kWh
KWh from gas 36700 kWh
Revenue gas 25690 DDK
Electricity per year 308280 DDK/yr
Heating per year 112500 DDK/yr
Capital cost 2100000 DDK
Assume no operating cost other than labour (OC will be as much as 20-50% of capital mainly due to maintenance of vacuum systems of which there are three. Plant will also require major overall/reinvestment every 6 years.)
Labour cost 125000 DDK (5*25000 DDK is a large underestimation, manager/senior engineer and safety personell get paid much more)
Payback on new green site plant 5.3 years minimum.

Compare this to the previous operation.
Oil burning: Worst case
Use (we will double use): 160000 L/year
Cost of oil: 0.02 DDK/kWh (high even at todays prices)
Cost per year: 38400 DDK/yr
Capital: 50000 DDK

Total cost: approx 20 times lower than biogas assuming similar maintenance costs and periods.

Biogas plant is not sustainable even with a grant of 600,000 DDK a year.