Water Charges for households!

[goosebump]

Its not a double charge

It is a double charge, you have already paid taxes to pay for this.

End of discussion.

Yes, clearly every rural house in the country should be attached to water mains free of charge to the householder.

If they pay their taxes yes they should. The fact they pay into group schemes or sinks wells at their own expense doesn't negate that fact.

How wonderfully equitable. It would cost about €150,000 to connect my house to the nearest water mains. Nice of you to think of me.

What else would I be entitled to in your Wonderworld?

Could you arrange for a twice daily bus service to to drop me off and pick me up at the train station? And maybe a primary school at the end of the road. That would be really handy.

[Sligoboy]

Its not a double charge

It is a double charge, you have already paid taxes to pay for this.

End of discussion.

Yes, clearly every rural house in the country should be attached to water mains free of charge to the householder.

If they pay their taxes yes they should. The fact they pay into group schemes or sinks wells at their own expense doesn't negate that fact.

How wonderfully equitable. It would cost about €150,000 to connect my house to the nearest water mains. Nice of you to think of me.

Whatever, you have a me feiner arguement thats all. Who said anything about connecting you to the mains anyway. You get water don't you. The point is you shouldn't have to pay for it's delivery to your tap regardless of how it gets there.

Water charges are still a double tax, it doesn't matter what way you cut it.

Clearly you are far too young to remember the last time this became an issue.

[david]

What do the old Taxes pay for these days. In the past you paid PAYE, PRSI, VAT, Excise duty, Road tax and VRT and in return the state gave you things like Water, Roads, Health care, pension, education for your children, policing, rubbish collection, maintaining your housing estate etc.

Now you still pay PAYE, PRSI, VAT, Excise duty, Road tax and VRT but in addition:

- They propose to charge us for the Water.
- Now we pay tolls on all new or revamped roads
- Now you have to have VHI/Vivas/Quinn to get basic treatment in hospital. And to add insult to injury there is a health levy out of your pay cheque on top of the PRSI.
- Now you have to have a private pension.
- Now you have to pay for the compulsory voluntary contributions, uniforms, PE gear, dozens of books, a lunch fee, after school study fee, building collection, class photo, class trip, class musical, no uniform day, raffles, lines, Tesco sports vouchers, grinds, etc etc, so our children can avail of the "free education".
- Now you pay for private firms to monitor your house alarm because if the alarm does go off the guards will only respond to complaints of noise pollution.
- Now you have pay for private companies to collect your refuse.
- Now you pay for management companies to maintain your housing estate because the council just couldn't be bothered.

Welcome to the 21st century. Americanisation is working nicely, thank you.

Maybe we should get Betchel to manage the water distribution system?

[DaveM]

[quote=Sligoboy]

Its not a double charge

It is a double charge, you have already paid taxes to pay for this.

End of discussion.

Yes, clearly every rural house in the country should be attached to water mains free of charge to the householder.

If they pay their taxes yes they should. The fact they pay into group schemes or sinks wells at their own expense doesn't negate that fact.

How wonderfully equitable. It would cost about €150,000 to connect my house to the nearest water mains. Nice of you to think of me.

Whatever, you have a me feiner arguement thats all. Who said anything about connecting you to the mains anyway. You get water don't you. The point is you shouldn't have to pay for it's delivery to your tap regardless of how it gets there.

Water charges are still a double tax, it doesn't matter what way you cut it.

Clearly you are far too young to remember the last time this became an issue.[/quote:2osiykoa]

Double taxation is a catchphrase sligoboy, you're smart enough to know that. If water charges were levied and there were no commensurate drop in direct taxation then it is simply a tax increase, not double taxation. The real question is whether the exchequer has the funds to pay the capital and operational costs necessary to provide this service. If not then the likelihood is that taxes will have to be increased. In this scenario water charges are a fairer solution as you the user pays based on their usage.

[myksav]

Should we introduce water charges for households?

Clean, safe, drinking water costs money to produce and distribute. We currently do an dreadful job in this area - the EPA report on water standards is grim reading. In addition, Forfas estimates that over 40% of the water supply pumped around the water system are lost due to leaks in the pipes.

Now, in theory, all this should be done out of our taxes under the current system, but, given the above, the system clearly isn't working well. Were an explicit water charge (as opposed to the implicit one in your taxes) introduced (along with a corresponding decrease in your taxes), how would it effect things? Would there be increased political pressure for improvements in the areas above and would it result in increased water conservation?

Pros and Cons anyone?

The question is too imprecise. What type of charges would you envisage? Flat rates? Charge by use? Applied to all households or just those on mains supply?
Would drinking standard water be a seperate supply to 'grey-water' supply, flushing, etc?

Without a clear idea of what type of charge you mean, I'd say no. From a personal greedy point of view. I have my own well and the only cost to me is the electricity needed to pump it from the well to the storage tank. One wind/solar charger and that running cost would be gone. At present, the initial cost of such an installation out-weighs the cost in electricity.
And without any filtering, my tap water is a much better quality compared to mains water.

[essexboy]

No, not without cast-iron guarantees on quality of supply, customer service, and conservation.

My water is regularly discoloured, and/or cut off, and calls to the County Council's "hotline" are never answered.
Of course, the "Water Services" staff look like a bunch of vagrants when you see them out and about, and these are the people who are responsible for the day-to-day workings of the system.

[lowtaxireland]

work out an average usage allowance...enough to cover the basics, and then charge for everything used in excess.....with the cash being allocated to water related spending...its no big deal and makes perfect sense. NB: Private companies should not be profiting from supplying water. The only role i see for them is in the area of repair/maintenace, IF AND ONLY IF they can perform that function more efficiently and effectively than the public sector.