Wind Power vs. Nuclear Power: How they compare

[SirCharles]

According to the Financial Times, "Seventy one per cent of all the new power generating capacity fitted in the EU last year came from solar panels, wind turbines or other renewable energy sources" (Europe sees surge in clean power).

[Tombo]

Both tecnhologies are significantly more expensive (full cycle) for elericity production than other easily implementatable ones (especially gas).


Wind is the complete basket case because it can provide NO effective supply (i.e. for evert 1 Mw of wind supply you you need 1 Mw of non-wind back up).

At least nuclear provides expensive but reliable supply. Wind provides expensive unreliable supply.

[Pat Gill]

Both tecnhologies are significantly more expensive (full cycle) for elericity production than other easily implementatable ones (especially gas).


Wind is the complete basket case because it can provide NO effective supply (i.e. for evert 1 Mw of wind supply you you need 1 Mw of non-wind back up).

At least nuclear provides expensive but reliable supply. Wind provides expensive unreliable supply.

I feel lazy this morning.

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/WP397.pdf

??????

[SirCharles]

Both tecnhologies are significantly more expensive (full cycle) for elericity production than other easily implementatable ones (especially gas).


Wind is the complete basket case because it can provide NO effective supply (i.e. for evert 1 Mw of wind supply you you need 1 Mw of non-wind back up).

At least nuclear provides expensive but reliable supply. Wind provides expensive unreliable supply.

=> Consumers electricity prices reduced with wind energy

=> Nuclear power 'would cost too much' -- ESRI

=> Debunking the myth that wind energy would be "theft of taxpayers money" and would "force high power prices"

Wind power is cheaper than nuclear and can even be cheaper than natural gas.

Nuclear needs 100% backup as the power plants need to be maintained and refilled. France's nuclear power plants are idle for an average 25% of the time.

Gas, oil and coal are finite resources and their use cause rapid global warming. The price of fossil fuels has been rising drastically in the last years.

Scientific American (A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables) writes: "Wind, water and solar technologies can provide 100 percent of the world's energy, eliminating all fossil fuels. Here's how"

[Tombo]

I feel lazy this morning.

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/WP397.pdf

??????

So do I:

We assess the impact of a hypothetical gas supply disruption in both winter and summer in 2008 (with observed market characteristics) and in 2020 (with projected market characteristics)

No need to get hypothetical with ind supply disruptions, eh????

[Pat Gill]

So do I:




No need to get hypothetical with ind supply disruptions, eh????

Nothing theoretical here Tombo.

MOSCOW/LONDON, Feb 4 (Reuters) - Russian gas exporter Gazprom has brought supplies to Europe back up to normal after reducing them "for a few days", but it is unable to meet increased demand amid freezing weather, a company official told Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Saturday.

European countries had reported that Gazprom, which responsible for around a quarter of European Union's natural gas imports, reduced supplies to them due to a biting cold front, while they also requested more fuel for heating.
Gazprom has been saying it had not breeched any contractual obligations. But on Saturday its chief financial officer, Andrey Kruglov, told Putin the company had cut gas supplies to Europe by up to 10 percent for a few days before returning them to normal levels.
However, the company cannot supply more gas, he said.

UPDATE 2-Gazprom says unable to meet greater Europe gas demand | Reuters

ROME — Italy announced emergency energy measures Monday, cutting gas supplies to some industries to make sure that private homes stayed warm during a severe cold spell.

Business lobbies complained strongly, saying the move threatened Italy’s already vulnerable economy. The cold snap has coincided with a sharp drop in the amount of gas that the Russian energy giant Gazprom is sending to Western Europe. Supplies to much of Europe have fallen by about 30 percent, though ENI, the Italian energy company, said gas supplies to Italy are about 20 percent less than usual.


Italy implements emergency measures, cuts some gas to businesses as Russian gas supplies drop - The Washington Post

Electricity bills in France automatically rise every year by the cost of inflation, currently around two per cent. Add to this an increase in the public service tax for supplying electricity deducted from each bill, and the expected increase in the cost over the next few years of renewing the country’s ageing supply network and it’s easy to see why prices are set to take-off.

French electricity costs to soar by 2016 - France - RFI

[Mister_Jinks]

Ah lads, to be honest, I'm getting a little tired of these discussions. I suggest that we get back to them when the lights go out. However, we may have to convene in candlelight and in the cold. I'll send ye a telegram which will be delivered by a postman on horseback. But we'll manage I suppose

But seriously (and I have asked this question more than once on other threads without a reply), but does anyone know if there are any major initiatives afoot to deal with the energy security issue? I would really like to know because with the goings on in the Middle East there could be a major shock to the system a lot sooner than we think I feel that we are in no way prepared.

It's high time that we took this issue very seriously. Well, it should have been taken very seriously a long time ago but better late than never and all that.

I'd be all for a nuclear power plant despite the risks but it takes a very long time (10 years perhaps) from inception until the power reaches the grid. And uranium is finite in supply also.

Wind, well by it's intermittent nature it's not ideal but we should probably be investing heavily here. There's the energy conservation side of it too of course. At the moment we waste energy wantonly, presumably as it's relatively cheap. However, if continue to rely so heavily on imported fossil fuels then that aint gonna last. I watch a good doco on wind farms some time ago. I'll try to dig it out and post it.

So, what's the plan guys? Does anyone know?

[Pat Gill]

Ah lads, to be honest, I'm getting a little tired of these discussions. I suggest that we get back to them when the lights go out. However, we may have to convene in candlelight and in the cold. I'll send ye a telegram which will be delivered by a postman on horseback. But we'll manage I suppose

But seriously (and I have asked this question more than once on other threads without a reply), but does anyone know if there are any major initiatives afoot to deal with the energy security issue? I would really like to know because with the goings on in the Middle East there could be a major shock to the system a lot sooner than we think I feel that we are in no way prepared.

It's high time that we took this issue very seriously. Well, it should have been taken very seriously a long time ago but better late than never and all that.

I'd be all for a nuclear power plant despite the risks but it takes a very long time (10 years perhaps) from inception until the power reaches the grid. And uranium is finite in supply also.

Wind, well by it's intermittent nature it's not ideal but we should probably be investing heavily here. There's the energy conservation side of it too of course. At the moment we waste energy wantonly, presumably as it's relatively cheap. However, if continue to rely so heavily on imported fossil fuels then that aint gonna last. I watch a good doco on wind farms some time ago. I'll try to dig it out and post it.

So, what's the plan guys? Does anyone know?

I opened this thread Energy security and the Irish economy. over the weekend and plan to discuss topics such as you suggest there over the next few weeks.

I can say for now that energy security is a discussion happening at the highest levels in the UK at present and our own government is now taking this issue seriously.

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/WP397.pdf

[SirCharles]

Wind Power vs. Nuclear Power: How they compare?

Well, Renewables Helped France Avoid Freezing in the Dark

In a startling development widely reported across Europe in the English-, French-, and German-language press, France imported electricity to meet peak demand during a brutal cold snap February 7, 2012. And one of the countries France imported electricity from was Germany.

Post Fukushima, Germany closed two-fifths of its nuclear reactors and there were fears that Germany would not be able to meet its own demand let alone export electricity.

Nuclear reactors provided one-fourth of Germany's electricity before Fukushima.

Available French nuclear capacity was operating flat-out with three reactors off line. However, France's famed nuclear fleet delivered only 60 percent of the 100,000 MW of peak load experienced at 7:00 p.m. (19:00 hours) as millions of French homeowners switched on their electric heaters.

The remainder of demand was met by oil, coal, hydro, imports from neighboring countries, and renewables.



French wind turbines produced 3,600 MW at the time, or 3.6% of demand. There is 6,600 MW of wind capacity installed in France. Thus, wind delivered 55% of its installed capacity during peak demand, indicating good but not exceptional wind in parts of France.

The amount of wind generation during peak demand was roughly equivalent to the three nuclear reactors that were not available at the time.

France imported 1,800 MW or 1.8 percent of peak demand from Germany. (Note that the following table is subject to change as more information becomes available.)



Both French and German grid operators noted that there was never any danger of a blackout as operators held some hydroelectric capacity on standby as an emergency reserve.

German Supply during French Peak Demand

Meanwhile, Germany was enduring the same Arctic weather as France. The sun had set so Germany's solar photovoltaic capacity was not contributing to supply.



Winds were lighter in Germany than in France, but Germany's fleet of 29,000 MW of wind turbines was generating 6,300 MW at the time for about 22 percent of their potential.

Nevertheless, German wind turbines were providing 9 percent of total German demand, more than enough for Germany to export electricity to France.

Earlier in the day, wind and solar in Germany met nearly 12 percent of German demand.

It is likely that German biogas and biomass plants also contributed significantly to supply. However, the public data source, EEX Transparency Platform, does not report biogas and biomass separately from conventional generation.

[Tombo]

At least the anti-science numpties don't appear to be winning:

For the first time since 1978, the United States has approved the construction of nuclear reactors. While the decision could herald a new dawn for nuclear power there, the major growth in the sector is likely to be elsewhere.

US to resume building nuclear plants - environment - 14 February 2012 - New Scientist