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  1. #43311
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    Starting right now, that requires a rate of land subsidence and
    sea level rise of over 15 mm/yr, several times the current rate.

    When is this dramatic increase going to begin to happen?
    The current sea level rise estimates you are talking about are averages for the whole world.

    Certain areas will lead or lag that figure - and some areas will have other important (sometimes bigger) effects like land subsidence due to extraction of groundwater, or a higher water table due to persistent flooding.

    But, ok, go build on a flood plain. Land may be cheap in SE Louisiana.

    Then again, your crowd are the ones who pass laws that the public must ignore the problem, or else. What's the success rate been with that?
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  2. #43312
    soubresauts soubresauts is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    By the way, your warnings about Dr Grimes seem to be incorrect.

    Politicians should stop pandering to anti-fluoridation campaigners | David Robert Grimes | Science | theguardian.com

    There will undoubtedly be opposition [to fluoridation] as there has been in the past but what is crucial is that decisions are based on scientific research, not misinformation and fear. The cost of such folly is clear to anyone who remembers the human suffering in the wake of the misinformed panic over the MMR vaccine just a decade ago.

    I am sure you will applaud Grimes' words.
    No, Grimes is demonstrably wrong about fluoridation, and he's wrong about MMR too. I guess you haven't heard about the scientific fraud in the CDC as revealed by whistleblower Dr William Thompson. This might enlighten you...
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  3. #43313
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnotologist View Post
    You have a warped understanding of "freedom of speech" and of the laws of libel.

    THere is nothing against calling someone out for fraud, but calling someone a fraud for publishing peer reviewed science is libel and also most violent assault on freedom of speech.

    You applaud the Fascist approach: and its anti intellectualism. You applaud the attempt to silence scientists and to pervert science.
    "Calling someone out for fraud in no way impinges on free speech" - of course not, but only if the accusations has some basis in fact.

    If they have no basis in fact, then they destroy free speech, because anyone with a big enough megaphone (e.g. Steyn) can silence the truth-teller (i.e. Mann) by blaring false accusations loudly enough and for a long enough period.

    It is an extension into print of what is called the Heckler's Charter - a heckler could effectively take away someone's free speech rights by continually interrupting, cat-calling, insulting, and generally being obnoxious, while claiming the "right of free speech" for himself.

    Much as Steyn and climate science deniers are trying (and failing) to do to Professor Mann in print.
    Last edited by owedtojoy; 29th August 2014 at 06:31 PM.
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  4. #43314
    Agnotologist Agnotologist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by soubresauts View Post
    Um, I'd be wary of citing the support of DR Grimes since he's well capable of coming out with idiotic claptrap, such as his promotion of fluoridation, which is utterly unscientific.
    Are you a struggling dentist?
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  5. #43315
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    "Calling someone out for fraud in no way impinges on free speech" - of course not, but only if the accusations has some basis in fact.

    If they have no basis in fact, then they destroy free speech, because anyone with a big enough megaphone (e.g. Steyn) can silence the truth-teller (i.e. Mann) by blaring false accusations loudly enough and for a long enough period.

    It is an extension into print of what is called the Heckler's Charter - a heckler could take away someone's free speech rights by continually interrupting, cat-calling, insulting, and generally being obnoxious. Much as Steyn and climate science deniers are trying (and failing) to do to Professor Mann in print.
    That;s only where the oppressor controls the media. The wind industry controls RTE so its ok to come the heavy of them. Where there is fair debate, then everyone should be fair.
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  6. #43316
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by soubresauts View Post
    Um, I'd be wary of citing the support of DR Grimes since he's well capable of coming out with idiotic claptrap, such as his promotion of fluoridation, which is utterly unscientific.
    When was climate change policy put to a vote of the people? Where does democracy fit in? If its our future that's at risk, then why can we not have a say?
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  7. #43317
    Agnotologist Agnotologist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainwreck View Post
    There seems to be trend developing where some of the most loved Alarmists are being called out for fraud.

    Next up, your favourite cartoonist, turned "climate sciencist", come "phychologist", Mr Cook:

    Cooking stove use, housing associations, white males, and the 97% - Jose L. Duarte



    If Michael Mann now has dibs on the totel "Mr Fraudipants", courtesy of Mark Steyn, what would one call John Cook "Mr Fraudilocks" perhaps? Or "Mr Cookthebooks"
    Notice how careful Duarte was NOT to accuse anyone of fraud? He says they should be investigated for fraud. IOW, he is smarter than you who takes it as a license to say that they are frauds.

    But then, you never exhibit any great understanding of anything.
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  8. #43318
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by soubresauts View Post
    No, Grimes is demonstrably wrong about fluoridation, and he's wrong about MMR too. I guess you haven't heard about the scientific fraud in the CDC as revealed by whistleblower Dr William Thompson. This might enlighten you...
    Never heard of David Grimes. Pat Swords is very well educated and experienced, why not listen to him?
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  9. #43319
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnotologist View Post
    Duh!
    He won't answer because he has not a clue. He will not address my point about the Scottish TV debate in the context of this tread either. He is just full of guff
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  10. #43320
    Agnotologist Agnotologist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by valamhic View Post
    That;s only where the oppressor controls the media. The wind industry controls RTE so its ok to come the heavy of them. Where there is fair debate, then everyone should be fair.
    Has it ever occurred to you that very few people even know what RTE is. Certainly not in America where the media is about 80% controlled by Right Wing interests that would favour a Steyn and hold his magaphone when his arms get tired.

    I had to look up RTE at one time to discover what was being cited.
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